I don't have confirmation bias about this. I would be more than happy to have seen any results from yagyas.
I also know someone who made a miraculous recovery from a head injury without any help from the gods (no one paid for any at least). Some people do spontaneously and unexpectedly recover from health crises, it's how miracles work - we only see the good results and filter out the rest. Think Lourdes, how many hundreds of thousands of people go there every year? And how many get cured? Probably the same miniscule amount as get anything from yagyas. It's a coincidence if anything happens at all, or the gods are a particularly unpleasant bunch who relish in our suffering. That's as good an argument as you'll get against the concept of a god capable of intervening in our affairs. He's a git. But the eastern religions have a great many get-out clauses for him which we are all familiar with; My karma is too bad or there's too much stress in collective consciousness. I wish I'd thought of it but I just don't have a criminal mind. Things like this evolve out of old superstitious ways of working things out. If something happens when the moon is overhead then the moon is responsible. If it doesn't happen next time the moon is overhead then there must be something - or someone - spoiling it and the hunt for the scapegoat starts. Scale it up and you've explained most of human history. The trouble is these things hang on because they offer so many more benefits than having to take responsibility for what happens to you and accept the ugly hand of chance in your affairs. Looking back, it's a real motif of my time in the TMO that whenever anyone had business or personal problems they'd always say they were getting a yagya done. Even if they were close to bankruptcy they'd spend the last few thousand on a prayer. And they'd always say it like it was the most obvious next step to take like getting the spare tyre out when you got a puncture, simple cause and effect. But there was never any effect. And no one ever wondered why, it would all get rationalised somehow. The best ones are when someone has a yagya done because a jyotishee foretells from planetary positions that they have bad karma coming back that should be avoided. A yagya recommendation is made and palms are crossed with serious silver. And nothing happens. The yagya worked! You can spot the logical error here can't you. The whole thing gave me the creeps because I never believed a word of it, and it annoyed me having to keep my mouth shut when good friends handed over the cash for this "service", I knew they'd never get anything and never see the money again because I seriously doubt we live in a universe that operates in that way. This whole conversation on FFL reminds me of the Catholic church and what happened to them when people got fed up having to take the priests word for everything and pay them for god's favour. Asking questions is the first step back to sanity IMO. ---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote : Salyavin, it sounds like the meeting was for students and faculty and I am neither. But on a more practical level, I didn't even know about the meeting until I read Rick's post! As for health yagyas, I personally know of one young man who had a miraculous recovery, doctors' words, from a head injury received during a car accident. There are probably an equal number of examples on either side of the question. Which leads me to think that these types of discussions really come down to what a person WANTS to think, wants to believe. That confirmation bias that Richard mentioned. On Saturday, March 15, 2014 12:35 PM, salyavin808 <[email protected]> wrote: You mean you weren't allowed in? Ask them why yagya's don't work. If I was to seriously count all the money I know has gone into the TMO on the basis of Marshy's say-so that that this is the greatest power we know of, I'd be here all day. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of pounds, for nothing. The most recent I can't even tell you about because I respect the sincerity of the people involved and it was for a very sick person - who obviously gained no benefit from the many thousands donated. But how about the two recent yagya's for Skelmersdale to get some land they were after for their new village? around £10,000 each! Did they work? No, of course not. And the list is endless. Here's your second question, why are they so expensive? $5000 at least for a health yagya! I know people who have had loads. Serves them right for being so gullible you might say, but look at the belief system supporting it, it even has ready made excuses for why they don't work and reasons why you're better off not asking for your money back!!!!! It's a masterstroke really, almost Blofeldian in it's ingenuity. I could think of more but you get the gist. Basically it's a cranky old belief system that Marshy typically made so very seductive; being able to buy prayers to get out of trouble. Surely the last refuge of the desperate. And even though it didn't even work it's still an article of faith. I never admire unswerving devotion because it means you never grow. Can't grow in fact. That is what the TMO became to me, not an evolving organisation but a staid and dogmatic cult of personality. But great fun to watch. ---In [email protected], <sharelong60@...> wrote : salyavin, yes, my suspicions got aroused at that bit about it being private. I'm hoping the next meeting will be open to people like me and I'll attend and ask some questions. If not, then I'm hoping that Rick will pass on what's been said here. Just as I told turq that I don't expect 100% certainty, nor do I expect 100% transparency. But imo, there is progress in that direction. On Saturday, March 15, 2014 11:05 AM, salyavin808 <[email protected]> wrote: My response to what? I think Yagya's are a load of crap and I really think everyone involved should take a long hard look at what they are paying for: “But no, they can’t just walk to Walmart. They can walk around inside their campus; it’s about a square mile. If they were allowed to go everywhere, the distractions would no doubt interfere with their study and reading.” “We’re at the smallest group size now since 2007,” he said. “We’re under 300 pandits. When the group is larger, there is more bliss, more wholeness.” Even Fred Travis agrees with me that the TMO shouldn't be selling something they haven't scientifically proved. I don't know what everyone is finding unreasonable about me pointing out that fact. If it works, prove it, if it doesn't let the poor guys go home so they can do something useful with their lives. In any case: “Well, it was a minority,” said Goldstein. “We have been meeting with individual groups to find out what happened. We’re not talking about why. We want to take action. We did not arbitrarily make the decision to remove this one leader. It was a decision not made lightly. But it is private.” It looks like a giant step to not telling you anything to me.... But at least somebody there asked why they should support it if it doesn't work. That's what you should be yowzering about. I don't care what people believe, I'm happy for them to believe anything at all but when it involves people from other countries being roped in and caged up, lest they get "distracted", that's when I start to worry. Especially when the people doing the hiring are supposedly devoted to science and finding out what's going on in the world. I hope people ask more questions about it, not just about this incident but about why they are there at all and if it is actually doing them or yourselves any good at all.
