Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris

[curtisdeltablues]

 --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote :

 The fact that Harris says this "—but it may be the only course of action 
available to us, given what Islamists believe" is more revealing than his 
assertion that he is "against" it. 
 
 His assertion that some Islamists are extremists is true, but that obviously 
does not cover all Muslims. The religion of Islam has been hijacked by a 
minority of very violent and more importantly greedy power hungry people. 
Harris's belief that all the Islamic violence is based on religion is naive. I 
assure you the mullahs and imams who exhort the young people to become 
terrorists and suicide bombers do so in the main because it furthers their 
agenda to gain or maintain wealth and power. 

C: I can't remember if he addresses your point about the religious sincerity of 
the Mullahs. You may be right about that. But it is tangential to his point 
about the issues with religious beliefs. All countries act in their own self 
interest but the ideology of Islam was a game changer at that time. Their 
confidence in what happens after death was instrumental in allowing the guys 
who flew the planes into the twin towers to act that way. So although their 
ultimate motivation at the leadership level may be just as you say, the 
followers are being guided by an ideology that allows for women to hide bombs 
under burkas at military checkpoints and blow themselves up along with our 
solders at that time.It is s direct result of religious ideas about how life 
works including a reward system in the afterlife for such behavior.

The other thing religion adds to the human tendency to power grab is to deflect 
criticism about the ideas they are spreading because it is shielded by the 
"don't criticize religious ideas directly" ban. Harris agrees with your 
analysis of the extremists but he places the blame on the moderates for 
shielding them behind the odd way we treat religious ideas. If they came out 
and said that this part of the Koran is wrong, or if Christians did this with 
the Bible we could have a discussion of ideas like we do with everything else 
in human knowledge. But both of these books are shielded from direct criticism 
by the idea that they are different from all other human produced literature 
containing ideas. There are scripture and God's hand was in their production. 
And the weird thing is that each religion only accepts their own god book as 
authoritative, not the other guy's. But they still protect the other guy's 
divine right of non criticism so that people wont challenge the absurd claim 
they are making about their own god book. Harris is against this collusion of 
ignorance. 

If you take out a section of the Bible that advocates slavery and say, this is 
stupid and wrong you will be accused of being religiously intolerant rather 
than just pointing out a stupid and wrong idea some man wrote. This is the 
battle Harris is picking, not the ultimate cynicism about the leader's 
motivations.







 --------------------------------------------
 On Sat, 5/3/14, curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@... 
<curtisdeltablues@... mailto:curtisdeltablues@...> wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, May 3, 2014, 2:22 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
<LEnglish5@...> wrote
 :
 
 Harris advocates a
 first strike against Iran?
 That's not controversialy,
 that's insane.
 When you interview him, be sure to
 change the name of batgap forum for that
 episode.
 
 C: Your
 very funny comment on changing the name of Batgap, I am
 assuming to batshit aside...
 
 this is a slanderous misread of Harris'
 position by journalists which he clarifies here:
 
 http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2
 
 The basic upshot is that he
 was painting a hypothetical combination of a society that
 glorifies suicidal actions against infidels combined with
 long range nuclear capability and the fact that we do have
 nuclear weapons that we would use if we believed we were in
 imminent danger.
 
 "Needless
 to say, this would be an unthinkable crime—as it would
 kill tens of 
 millions of innocent civilians in a single day—but it may
 be the only 
 course of action available to us, given what Islamists
 believe." HarrisWhat
 will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at
 the mere 
 mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear
 weaponry? If 
 history is any guide, we will not be sure about where the
 offending 
 warheads are or what their state of readiness is, and so we
 will be 
 unable to rely on targeted, conventional weapons to destroy
 them. In 
 such a situation, the only thing likely to ensure our
 survival may be a 
 nuclear first strike of our own. Needless to say, this would
 be an 
 unthinkable crime—as it would kill tens of millions of
 innocent 
 civilians in a single day—but it may be the only course of
 action 
 available to us, given what Islamists believe. How would
 such an 
 unconscionable act of self-defense be perceived by the rest
 of the 
 Muslim world? It would likely be seen as the first incursion
 of a 
 genocidal crusade. The horrible irony here is that seeing
 could make it 
 so: this very perception could plunge us into a state of hot
 war with 
 any Muslim state that had the capacity to pose a nuclear
 threat of its 
 own. All of this is perfectly insane, of course: I have just
 described a
 plausible scenario in which much of the world’s
 population could be 
 annihilated on account of religious ideas that belong on the
 same shelf 
 with Batman, the philosopher’s stone, and unicorns. That
 it would be a 
 horrible absurdity for so many of us to die for the sake of
 myth does 
 not mean, however, that it could not happen. - See more at:
 
 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2#sthash.G6o2BhSt.dpuf
 
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2#sthash.G6o2BhSt.dpuf
 
 He is not for it,
 he is against it. He believes the beliefs in Islam might
 cause it so he is against those beliefs.
 
 
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
<punditster@...> wrote
 :
 
 On
 5/2/2014 10:02 AM, Rick Archer
 wrote:
 Last
 night I read the first chapter of the End of Faith and LOVED
 it.
 Didn’t disagree with anything I’ve read so far. I’m
 taking notes
 and will post them for discussion later
 on.
 >
 
 You may find the idea of a nuclear first-strike against Iran
 to be
 not quite to your liking, but I tend to agree with Harris on
 this -
 avoid the danger that lies ahead.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection
 is active.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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