Yes, Jim, often Barry's experiences with the TMO don't jibe with my experience. BTW, I had some involvement with the "Capital" in Ste. Genevieve, Mo. Taught some courses down there. Had peripheral involvement with the buying and building of it.
---In [email protected], <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : Thanks for speaking up, Steve. I am so tired, as if it isn't obvious, of Barry, who quit the TMO 40 years ago, after having failed both his students, and himself. He then casts these false memories about, as if they were gold, and should be taken Very Seriously. Give me a break - Very Seriously. It really cheapens the reality of what many of us here have been through, and not without our doubts. The last thing I need to hear, is some quitter, transferring his sense of failure onto the org that kicked him out, and those that stuck it through. ---In [email protected], <steve.sundur@...> wrote : I have to say Barry, when I hear you talk about your experiences in California as as Regional or State Coordinator, it doesn't jibe with my experience in the Midwest, as it pertains to keeping people off course etc. You paint a very severe and petty picture which I do not recognize. P.S. As regards Andy Rymer, as I've reported here previously, during the time I saw him interact with Maharishi, which was around 1977, it was always a very affectionate interaction. There was no "competition" going on. P.S.S. As regards this ostracizing of anyone who claims to have reached enlightenment, I suspect the protocols in the TM Movement were similar to most any student/teacher relationship in the eastern tradition. But it isn't surprising that you would try to paint this relationship in the worst possible way as it pertains to the TMO. Let's face it, that is what constitutes about 80% of your participation here. ---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote : I can confirm what Curtis says here, from my earlier Regional Office and State Coordinator days. Other than conducting a Black Mass in the TM center, *nothing* was as likely to get you on Maharishi's Shit List and exiled forever from the movement than "announcing your enlightenment." It was an instantaneous way to be dropped from all mailing lists, be barred from any courses, and be shunned by all concerned. As Curtis suggests, this is pretty odd behavior for a group that promises the fastest path to enlightenment. Several scholars who have specialized in the study of spiritual groups have proposed as one of their primary definitions of a cult the tendency to denigrate any student who claims to have achieved what only the "leader" is supposed to have achieved, and promote the idea that "Nobody graduates." This is seen by many of them as *the* most defining characteristic of a controlling cult.
