And suicides and attempted suicides and various psychotic episodes associated 
with TM - I'll take mindfulness any day.



________________________________
 From: nablusoss1008 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:58 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mindfulness and/versus TM
 


  
That's the reason why headaches are widely reported after doing mindfulness.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote :


"When practicing mindfulness, for
instance by watching the breath, one must remember to maintain
attention on the chosen object of awareness, "faithfully returning
back to refocus on that object whenever the mind wanders away from
it." 

Thus, mindfulness means not only, "moment to moment awareness of
present events," but also, "remembering to be aware of something
or to do something at a designated time in the future". In fact,
"the primary connotation of this Sanskrit term [smrti] (and its
corresponding Pali term sati) is recollection"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness

On 5/30/2014 4:04 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]
wrote:

 
>>Mindfulness, it is also
that place
like after you have thought a sutra or mantra and you
are sitting as
just quiet in samadhi in restful alertness. Resourcing
Awake in
Being, then pinging the system with some vibration of
thought as the
mantra or sutra and yet mindful as what comes out of
Being. Mindfulness is built in to the TM-sidhis
practice. It is not just
mental repetition or thinking. It is the the wonderfully
set up
collision of Dharna, dhyan, and samadhi. Very much part
of proper practice of TM is sitting there with no mantra
and no thought.  When Buddhistic practices
are crossed with transcending it is mindfulness as
wakefulness in
process and 'mindfulness' becomes the colloquial word
for it. TM'ers
it seems often willfully misunderstand or misinterpret
the word to
stick it in the Eye of buddhists. But, like practicing
the Sidhis,
it is something you do within Being and the physiology.
A lot like
the Ved and Physiology mindful practice within TM. As
Guru Dev said,
japa alone is just reciting a mantra, add dhyan it is
meditative
practice. That is TM. That is mindfulness well done.
That is what
Guru Dev taught. It is being mindful in process and not
just falling
asleep or just some thinking. It is really quite
beautiful. Maharishi packaged it very elegantly as TM
and the advanced
techniques, if you use them. They are things people
should do, mindfully. Certainly
people everywhere should at least take more quiet time
and be more mindful
that way too. Spiritual practice is something one does.
  'Mindfulness' is a good catch-all for that. - Buck
>>
>>
>>anartaxius
writes: ===
>>
>>
>>SHARELONG60
WROTE:
>>Ann,
thanks so much for posting this.
Mindfulness sounds exhausting to
me! All that continual
manipulation of attention! Plus
Kabat-Zinn himself says that all
the contents of attention are
fleeting. So why bother to focus
on them?! Just let attention go
where it goes naturally, to a
field of greatest happiness.
>>
>>
>>===
>>
>>
>>FLEETWOOD_MACANDCHESE
WROTE:
>>As I
have expressed before, I am not a
big fan of mindfulness, as a
meditation practice, on its own,
eyes open, or closed, because to my
way of thinking, it puts the cart
before the horse. However, I can see
the strong value in having a
spiritual teacher that a person
actually has a personal relationship
with, combined with mindfulness. 
>>
>>
>>That
way, the teacher is functioning,
much like the correct use of the
mantra, in TM -  bringing the
student to subtler levels and
experiences, without the student
having a say, in where they want to
go (aka, take it easy, take it as it
comes). Breaks boundaries, quickly.
>>
>>
>>Seems
to me, that the advantage, of a
personal relationship, with a
spiritual teacher, combined with
mindfulness, if done right, would be
big, dramatic breakthroughs, in
many, many areas - much faster, than
the gradual 'erosion' of the mantra
- though possible not as
comprehensive, either...Both of the
Barrys have mentioned significant
interactions, as a result of, both,
their attention, or mindfulness, on
where the guru was pointing, in
addition to the strength of the
experience, itself, as a result of
the guru's proximity. 
>>
>>
>>===
>>
>>
>>BHAIRITU
WROTE:
>>
>>
>>Mindfulness
is just another door to the same
room.
>>
>>
>>
>>===
>>
>>
>>I
learned both mindfulness and TM. I
only practised mindfulness for a
short time until recently. There
seems to be various styles of
meditation called mindfulness.
What I learned long ago was not
difficult conceptually or
exhausting, but thoughts seemed to
be a problem for me then. In some
mindfulness systems the attention
one pays to various things is no
greater than one pays attention to
coming back to the mantra in TM,
so it is not intrinsically
difficult or tiring, or effortful,
so the characterisation of
mindfulness being concentration is
not necessarily correct.
Fleetwood_MacandCheese's comments
above here I think are pretty
good. 
>>
>>
>>Eyes
open mindfulness is primarily to
prevent visual hallucinations.
Eyes closed mindfulness is more
pleasant.
>>
>>
>>It is
well known that sensory
deprivation results in
hallucinations. Meditation in
general might be considered a
somewhat less extreme form of
sensory deprivation. We also
experience sensory deprivation in
sleep, and then hallucinations
(dreams) arise. This invites the
hypothesis that more extreme
sensory deprivation might result
in faster progress, though it
seems likely you would have to be
monitored for safety.
>>
>>
>>My
experience has been TM eventually
transformed into mindfulness, for
what the mind initially thinks of
as transcendence turns into
immanence. So Jim's comment about
mindfulness putting the cart
before the horse seems correct if
you assume the only thing you are
doing is practising the meditation
as technique without input from a
teacher. Conceptually TM assumes
you do not have a clue as to the
long term result of practice, and
mindfulness (at least the versions
I am familiar with) assumes the
final result is already at hand,
and you just have not noticed. At
least early in the TM movement we
have had comments recently that
Maharishi attempted to indicate
that we are already enlightened,
which apparently did not go over
very well with his followers at
that time.
>>
>>
>>My
observation is that interaction
with a good teacher with
mindfulness (something I never
really had) has garnered
significant progress for a lot of
people. You do not see people
blissed out so much with
mindfulness, they tend to be
having rockier experiences as
their conceptual world of thought
crumbles, so good intellectual
guidance is a big plus. I feel as
far as TM, better intellectual
guidance not based on the talking
parrot model would have been a lot
more helpful too, in the later
stages as experience changed. I
think my trip would have been a
lot shorter. Dealing with dim-bulb
teachers is truly frustrating.
>>
>>
>>My
current experience is just sitting
quietly is the least effortful
thing to do for 'formal'
meditation. Thoughts and other
experiences come and go at times,
and one does not have to 'come
back to the mantra' because there
is nowhere for the mantra to go
any more because the whole concept
and experience that there is
somewhere else to go or to
experience has completely dropped
away. Informal meditation is just
what one does during the day. Same
experience.
>>
>>
>>The
idea that mindfulness leads to the
same result as TM seems to me to
be correct. However the conceptual
models people have about the
result before the result is fully
evident can colour how we think
about these different methods.
Experiences before clear
'enlightenment' and our
understanding have wide
variability. 'Enlightenment'
itself concerns experience that is
undefinable except by metaphor,
and coming to agreement on which
metaphors are suitable for
pointing to the experience is
probably ultimately a lost cause.
The one or ones that work for you
are probably only the ones of
value and they might just not be
of any use for someone else. All
roads lead to Rome, and that
metaphor is apt, if you happen to
be in Rome, and know that is where
you are. 
>>
>>
>>'Right
as diverse pathes leden the folk the
righte wey to Rome.' — Chaucer
>>
>>
>>Even
Maharishi said techniques can take
you only so far, so what are the
signs that indicate that the
techniques one practices have
reached the limit of their utility
for the purpose of enlightenment?
Also, after enlightenment, are any
techniques useful for anything?
>>
>>
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