For the record, my bet is that neither the Jim-bot nor the Nabby-bot have *ever* in their lives learned or practiced any form of mindfulness meditation, as taught by a reputable teacher. Neither of them, in fact, seems even capable of distinguishing mindfulness from forms of "concentration" meditation that they heard described by Maharishi and his parrot TM teachers as potentially causing headaches.
First, having practiced both real mindfulness and concentration techniques, I can assure you (as has Anartaxius) that they are not the same thing. Second, having practiced them alongside many others practicing the same techniques, I've never heard a single person complain of headaches. Not one. No one I ever asked had ever heard of anyone complaining of headaches. Maharishi just made that shit up about concentration, and Nabby just made it up about mindfulness. Third, this is yet another example of TMers badrapping techniques *they have never learned or practiced* in an attempt to portray TM as "better" than something *they know nothing about*. How pathetic. Don't they ever get tired of demonstrating how insecure they are? ________________________________ From: "fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> LOL! Yes, too much "internal television", leading to eyestrain, and headaches. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : That's the reason why headaches are widely reported after doing mindfulness. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : "When practicing mindfulness, for instance by watching the breath, one must remember to maintain attention on the chosen object of awareness, "faithfully returning back to refocus on that object whenever the mind wanders away from it." Thus, mindfulness means not only, "moment to moment awareness of present events," but also, "remembering to be aware of something or to do something at a designated time in the future". In fact, "the primary connotation of this Sanskrit term [smrti] (and its corresponding Pali term sati) is recollection"." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness On 5/30/2014 4:04 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: >>>Mindfulness, it is also that place like after you have thought a sutra or mantra and you are sitting as just quiet in samadhi in restful alertness. Resourcing Awake in Being, then pinging the system with some vibration of thought as the mantra or sutra and yet mindful as what comes out of Being. Mindfulness is built in to the TM-sidhis practice. It is not just mental repetition or thinking. It is the the wonderfully set up collision of Dharna, dhyan, and samadhi. Very much part of proper practice of TM is sitting there with no mantra and no thought. When Buddhistic practices are crossed with transcending it is mindfulness as wakefulness in process and 'mindfulness' becomes the colloquial word for it. TM'ers it seems often willfully misunderstand or misinterpret the word to stick it in the Eye of buddhists. But, like practicing the Sidhis, it is something you do within Being and the physiology. A lot like the Ved and Physiology mindful practice within TM. As Guru Dev said, japa alone is just reciting a mantra, add dhyan it is meditative practice. That is TM. That is mindfulness well done. That is what Guru Dev taught. It is being mindful in process and not just falling asleep or just some thinking. It is really quite beautiful. Maharishi packaged it very elegantly as TM and the advanced techniques, if you use them. They are things people should do, mindfully. Certainly people everywhere should at least take more quiet time and be more mindful that way too. Spiritual practice is something one does. 'Mindfulness' is a good catch-all for that. - Buck >>> >>> >>>anartaxius writes: === >>> >>> >>>SHARELONG60 WROTE: >>>Ann, thanks so much for posting this. Mindfulness sounds exhausting to me! All that continual manipulation of attention! Plus Kabat-Zinn himself says that all the contents of attention are fleeting. So why bother to focus on them?! Just let attention go where it goes naturally, to a field of greatest happiness. >>> >>> >>>=== >>> >>> >>>FLEETWOOD_MACANDCHESE WROTE: >>>As I have expressed before, I am not a big fan of mindfulness, as a meditation practice, on its own, eyes open, or closed, because to my way of thinking, it puts the cart before the horse. However, I can see the strong value in having a spiritual teacher that a person actually has a personal relationship with, combined with mindfulness. >>> >>> >>>That way, the teacher is functioning, much like the correct use of the mantra, in TM - bringing the student to subtler levels and experiences, without the student having a say, in where they want to go (aka, take it easy, take it as it comes). Breaks boundaries, quickly. >>> >>> >>>Seems to me, that the advantage, of a personal relationship, with a spiritual teacher, combined with mindfulness, if done right, would be big, dramatic breakthroughs, in many, many areas - much faster, than the gradual 'erosion' of the mantra - though possible not as comprehensive, either...Both of the Barrys have mentioned significant interactions, as a result of, both, their attention, or mindfulness, on where the guru was pointing, in addition to the strength of the experience, itself, as a result of the guru's proximity. >>> >>> >>>=== >>> >>> >>>BHAIRITU WROTE: >>> >>> >>>Mindfulness is just another door to the same room. >>> >>> >>> >>>=== >>> >>> >>>I learned both mindfulness and TM. I only practised mindfulness for a short time until recently. There seems to be various styles of meditation called mindfulness. What I learned long ago was not difficult conceptually or exhausting, but thoughts seemed to be a problem for me then. In some mindfulness systems the attention one pays to various things is no greater than one pays attention to coming back to the mantra in TM, so it is not intrinsically difficult or tiring, or effortful, so the characterisation of mindfulness being concentration is not necessarily correct. Fleetwood_MacandCheese's comments above here I think are pretty good. >>> >>> >>>Eyes open mindfulness is primarily to prevent visual hallucinations. Eyes closed mindfulness is more pleasant. >>> >>> >>>It is well known that sensory deprivation results in hallucinations. Meditation in general might be considered a somewhat less extreme form of sensory deprivation. We also experience sensory deprivation in sleep, and then hallucinations (dreams) arise. This invites the hypothesis that more extreme sensory deprivation might result in faster progress, though it seems likely you would have to be monitored for safety. >>> >>> >>>My experience has been TM eventually transformed into mindfulness, for what the mind initially thinks of as transcendence turns into immanence. So Jim's comment about mindfulness putting the cart before the horse seems correct if you assume the only thing you are doing is practising the meditation as technique without input from a teacher. Conceptually TM assumes you do not have a clue as to the long term result of practice, and mindfulness (at least the versions I am familiar with) assumes the final result is already at hand, and you just have not noticed. At least early in the TM movement we have had comments recently that Maharishi attempted to indicate that we are already enlightened, which apparently did not go over very well with his followers at that time. >>> >>> >>>My observation is that interaction with a good teacher with mindfulness (something I never really had) has garnered significant progress for a lot of people. You do not see people blissed out so much with mindfulness, they tend to be having rockier experiences as their conceptual world of thought crumbles, so good intellectual guidance is a big plus. I feel as far as TM, better intellectual guidance not based on the talking parrot model would have been a lot more helpful too, in the later stages as experience changed. I think my trip would have been a lot shorter. Dealing with dim-bulb teachers is truly frustrating. >>> >>> >>>My current experience is just sitting quietly is the least effortful thing to do for 'formal' meditation. Thoughts and other experiences come and go at times, and one does not have to 'come back to the mantra' because there is nowhere for the mantra to go any more because the whole concept and experience that there is somewhere else to go or to experience has completely dropped away. Informal meditation is just what one does during the day. Same experience. >>> >>> >>>The idea that mindfulness leads to the same result as TM seems to me to be correct. However the conceptual models people have about the result before the result is fully evident can colour how we think about these different methods. Experiences before clear 'enlightenment' and our understanding have wide variability. 'Enlightenment' itself concerns experience that is undefinable except by metaphor, and coming to agreement on which metaphors are suitable for pointing to the experience is probably ultimately a lost cause. The one or ones that work for you are probably only the ones of value and they might just not be of any use for someone else. All roads lead to Rome, and that metaphor is apt, if you happen to be in Rome, and know that is where you are. >>> >>> >>>'Right as diverse pathes leden the folk the righte wey to Rome.' — Chaucer >>> >>> >>>Even Maharishi said techniques can take you only so far, so what are the signs that indicate that the techniques one practices have reached the limit of their utility for the purpose of enlightenment? Also, after enlightenment, are any techniques useful for anything? >>> >>> >> >> >> >> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus >> protection is active. >>
