Yeah, they do - Ramana, and MMY and Brahmananda Saraswati, and Adyashanti, all of those guys do it and talk about it, and write books - else we wouldn't have any examples.
None of the characteristics of enlightenment are a secret, or something everyone dreams up independently. As for all of the above, being frauds and deluded, yeah it does look that way, from a certain perspective. If a person is culturally brainwashed, or feeble minded, or mentally unbalanced, any of those, then the people listed above seem like frauds and deluded. As for me having a long way to go, yes, it is a big place. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jedi_spock@...> wrote : --- <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : All the enlightened people talk about their experiences, No, they don't. like I am permanently established in silence, every perception sees the infinity of the object, unity prevailing. Why do you want me to repeat it? The enlightened people have been talking and writing about these things forever. They are all frauds or deluded. Barry told a silly little story about some western-bubbleized person having a good time, and then realizing instead they were a victim of karma, with a mind full of thoughts. I didn't get what was so special about the story. And this other guy, going around telling people they are enlightened, anointing them like a pope. Maharishi declared that Robin was E. The whole thing is crazy. Just as enlightenment is self-evident, attempts to do anything more than describe it, live it, or achieve it, seem counter-productive, to me. You still have a long way to go. --- <anartaxius@...> wrote : Let's pretend I read this. What are the reasons that this statement you made to Barry does not apply to you, or say to me? Exactly how does one experientially and empirically parse the statement 'I am enlightened (or not)' versus, say, 'he is enlightened (or not). What is the criterion or criteria for making such a judgement? What is the ability developed in you that allows you to do this? How do you avoid making a mistake about it? How does this apply to techniques and teachings of other teachers, who also make the claim of enlightenment? How do you make a judgement concerning those teachers and their students, who may use different methods and have a different explanatory context? Maharishi said 'there is nothing new under the sun' and so, what is it about enlightenment that is different from what came before? Did he lie? Did he tell the truth? From: "fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> From anyone here who has said that they are enlightened, I haven't seen any unraveling. The reason being that if anyone achieves spiritual liberation using the techniques of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, they know the difference between true spiritual freedom and delusion. I am not sure you do, though. You are one of the strongest mood makers on here, and for someone "in the game" so long, you have almost nothing to show for it. PS Let's pretend you didn't read this. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote : Seems like everybody's reading this book, except the people here on FFL who assume they already know everything and don't need to, that is. :-) This is a great quote that I'll pass along because 1) my friend already did all the typing so I don't have to, and 2) I love the simple and perfect way that Dzogchen deals with the kinds of faux enlightenment we see often on Fairfield Life.
