I wouldn't be too worried about death. You prepare for it every night
when you go to sleep. For all we know this life may be nothing but an
amusement park ride.
On 12/16/2014 06:48 AM, Duveyoung wrote:
Yeah, it's to nail down Nisargadatta's take on whether consciousness,
after death of the body, is yet maintained within some sort of
physicality I know not of. Astral nervous system?
Nisargadatta's so "out of the person business" and, too, so clear that
perfect nothingness is sentient and eternal, that I truly do not think
he cared if the soul has metaphysical staying power. It was all
illusion to him.
One thing he said, and I paraphrase: "Don't miss that I'm doing
nightly puja sessions with my small group of followers." Again, I
don't know why he did the rituals, and my guesses here would lack
traction, but if there is something that continues after death, then
doing scriptural rituals seems like a worthy way to prepare
consciousness to be active at very low energy levels.
The TM puja requires the teacher to be aware of many levels of
consciousness simultaneously -- the spoken words, the Sanskrit
internally "heard," the meaning of the Sanskrit, the feelings/emotions
that harmonize with the words' meaning, and the actual physical
movements. Since so many operations of consciousness are being
"monitored" during the puja, it seems to underline that awareness must
be beyond the physical. Sure seems to me that if the astral world is
real, the puja would be good prep.
This said, I don't do puja and I don't meditate and I don't do Advaita
mindfulness methods. As a narcissist I think I pretty much started TM
for the promised "new personality. Once I understood that TM doesn't
affect personality, the prospect of reaching CC became a "many
lifetimes" thingy to me. And if so, then I'll just be happy with the
29 years of four hours of program per day.
But I'm a reading fool -- it's about all I can do as far as I can tell
-- at least give my ego some peace that it has axioms that sustain a
world view. Adavaita just makes good logical sense to me.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
"Consciousness can only become more subtle and refined and that is
what happens after death."
You reckon no one here can logically beat this? This is crap for a
start, seems like it's the killer punch to its own credibility.
But the rest of it is interesting if you like that sort of thing, but
seems to have been caused by the problem of the brain not being able
to see how it works by looking at itself. That's why we think there
are two things going on in there when they are really aspects of the
same thing and I don't see how we can have one without the other.
You'll tie yourself in knots trying to turn round fast enough to see
how the mind pulls off the trick, maybe you'll go crazy and think
there's some sort of eternal aspect to our selves that is beyond our
understanding. It sure seems like that but then I fall asleep and the
illusion (however it works) disappears. That's what fuels all this
speculation, the fact we can't imagine not being here.
If you put it all into an evolutionary perspective you lose all the
mystical confusion by realising the whole thing has been added to and
refined but that type of refining (jn fact the only type) is always a
bodge-up there isn't a single part of our bodies that works as well as
it would if it had been designed and I see no reason why the brain
should be different. But people don't like thinking about it like
that, it collapses the wave form away from us being some sort of
mystically superior being. But we could probably work out quite easily
what previous life forms would have had upstairs, the only difference
between us and them is this ability to create endless metaphors. So
it's all constructs really, and it's the constructs that are aware of
themselves even if they never come to a conclusion about how they
work. The problem here is the metaphors taking themselves too seriously.
You probably think that's ducking the question but it's just avoiding
getting pulled into the endless cycle of ever more mysterious
sophistry. We won't work it out how minds work from the inside, at
least no one ever has, so it's probably be a good idea to hang five
and work out how it's all actually put together and start again from
there.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote :
noozguru wrote : "Close your eyes and tells us where your awareness
ends."
Every time I write about this stuff I get just a bit more able to keep
to the central issues. So on that level, I thank you for the reply.
Awareness is not consciousness. You, above, used the word "your" as
if my ego (or my nervous system, my mind, my brain and/or my Being --
take your pick) had some sort of natural right to "own" awareness as
if "it" were some sort of personal "thing" over which I would have
some sort of hegemony. BAH! Awareness is beyond beginnings and
endings -- it's not a dimensional thing or "it" or whatever -- if you
have a category, piss off, awareness is beyond it no matter what.
Whatever my mind is able to do is a product of my nervous system --
NOT AWARENESS.
Compare: Awareness "is" beyond the "does or does not;" whereas, mind
is a processing of, what?, billions of chemical operations per
"thought?" THAT'S NOT AWARENESS.
Awareness is not a doing or non-doing. It's not an "it." It's not in
or out of existence. That which is aware is awareness solely --
consciousness merely attempts to chemically embody and internally
structure itself to symbolize awareness -- this is labeled "I am." If
a thought comes, "I am" changes to "I am that thought." That's
consciousness pretending it is sentient. BAH. Consciousness is an
identity whore. The monkey who will jump to any branch -- that's the
Ved symbol for how the mind attends to its processes -- NOT how
awareness or identity is "changing or moving or whatever."
Awareness is beyond isness and isnotness. Consciousness (Being) is all
about parochial expression in a nervous system. (I'm willing to grant
that maybe the universe is a giant nervous system and that that would
be the foundation of our understanding of the term, "universal
consciousness."
Remember, I'm not the person saying this shit. I'm merely reporting
Advaita axioms -- why? -- because I think we'd all be edified to see
this CRUCIAL difference between these two concepts of awareness and
consciousness. The concept, awareness, is merely a place holder for
"we don't have a way to conceptualize this non-this non-thingy thingy."
Had enough of me? Don't blame you, so here's Nisargadatta -- who was
the real deal as far as I can tell from my many years of reading his
shit. But what would I know? One thing I bet is that no one here can
best his logic about the present issue.
Here:
"Maharaj: The present 'I am' is as false as the 'I was' and 'I shall be'.
It is merely an idea in the mind, an impression left by memory, and
the separate identity it creates is false.
This habit of referring to a false centre must be done away with, the
notion 'I see', 'I feel', 'I think', 'I do', must disappear from the
field of consciousness; what remains when the false is no more, is real."
and:
"There can be no transition from consciousness to awareness, for
awareness is not a form of consciousness. Consciousness can only
become more subtle and refined and that is what happens after death.
As the various vehicles of man die off, the modes of consciousness
induced by them also fade away."
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :
Close your eyes and tells us where your awareness ends.
On 12/15/2014 01:59 PM, Duveyoung wrote:
What the fuck's with youse guys -- I post a few comic blurbs about
awareness not being consciousness, and all I get is "you're a putz"
and "age?"
How very fucking indecent of you -- those are two INHUMAN responses.
Utterly void of good intent.
These are your fucking personalities? -- this is what you get up with
in the morning? You life is funzies only if you're able to
maliciously heap up on someone with a strong opinion where you have,
it seems, killed that area of your brains that could support that
opinion? -- with previously indulged in hate, anger, life-long
recriminations of failure? -- WHAT?
HOLY FUCK, HOW MISERABLE ARE YOU?
It's shit like those responses that ENCOURAGE Willy etc. He's just
too stupid to mount up to your level of smarm. That makes you his
mentor.
Have either of you two ever tried to get ONE TRUTH explicated,
deconstructed, approached, hinted at? -- anything you can brag about
having brought to this community that is, you know, SPIRITUALLY WORTH
ANYONE'S NOTICE?
"Awareness is not consciousness." That's fucking gold. That could be
the start of ten thousand good conversations. What have you brought
to this community that has this clarifying power?
Fuck your history, your celebrity name dropping, your travel shit,
your computers-honcho shit, your astrology shit, your Sanskrit shit,
your tantra shit, -- NAME ONE THING TRUE YOU'VE CHAMPIONED that has
any value in helping other here gain clarity about the human
condition. At best you're parroting other opinions instead of trying
to ferret out the truth with the minds that come here every day and
willing to do that spade work.
You're both a couple of righteous ass pricks as far as your actions
here go. Snobs. But your're nothing-known-very-well snobs -- the
worse kind. At best, you're C+ personalities. You're whistling past
the graveyard on most topics -- afraid you'll be found lacking.
I admit my many difficulties arriving at clarity, but you two strut
around here like you're on some sort of stilts, and you do so when
there's folks here that outrank you in every way possible: spiritual,
psychological, sociological, career-wise, money-wise, IQ-wise,
heart-wise, education-wise, world-experience-wise, and on and on, and
you two just are the spitball champs snickering in the back of the class.
It's low. It's small. It's not gunna get ya into a high heaven.
And worst of all, your spitballs are pathetic -- you don't even have
a Don Rickles funny-side to your posts -- no bite, no irony, no
satire -- all we get from you two is a total lack of creativity in
every single post I've ever read of yours -- and I read almost all of
them. You both stink of ego that's been hardened into a sour POV
that's just not going to get straightened out in the life left to
you. Sucks, eh?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <noozguru@...> wrote :
Close your eyes and tells us where your awareness ends.
On 12/15/2014 01:59 PM, Duveyoung wrote:
What the fuck's with youse guys -- I post a few comic blurbs about
awareness not being consciousness, and all I get is "you're a putz"
and "age?"
How very fucking indecent of you -- those are two INHUMAN responses.
Utterly void of good intent.
These are your fucking personalities? -- this is what you get up with
in the morning? You life is funzies only if you're able to
maliciously heap up on someone with a strong opinion where you have,
it seems, killed that area of your brains that could support that
opinion? -- with previously indulged in hate, anger, life-long
recriminations of failure? -- WHAT?
HOLY FUCK, HOW MISERABLE ARE YOU?
It's shit like those responses that ENCOURAGE Willy etc. He's just
too stupid to mount up to your level of smarm. That makes you his
mentor.
Have either of you two ever tried to get ONE TRUTH explicated,
deconstructed, approached, hinted at? -- anything you can brag about
having brought to this community that is, you know, SPIRITUALLY WORTH
ANYONE'S NOTICE?
"Awareness is not consciousness." That's fucking gold. That could be
the start of ten thousand good conversations. What have you brought
to this community that has this clarifying power?
Fuck your history, your celebrity name dropping, your travel shit,
your computers-honcho shit, your astrology shit, your Sanskrit shit,
your tantra shit, -- NAME ONE THING TRUE YOU'VE CHAMPIONED that has
any value in helping other here gain clarity about the human
condition. At best you're parroting other opinions instead of trying
to ferret out the truth with the minds that come here every day and
willing to do that spade work.
You're both a couple of righteous ass pricks as far as your actions
here go. Snobs. But your're nothing-known-very-well snobs -- the
worse kind. At best, you're C+ personalities. You're whistling past
the graveyard on most topics -- afraid you'll be found lacking.
I admit my many difficulties arriving at clarity, but you two strut
around here like you're on some sort of stilts, and you do so when
there's folks here that outrank you in every way possible: spiritual,
psychological, sociological, career-wise, money-wise, IQ-wise,
heart-wise, education-wise, world-experience-wise, and on and on, and
you two just are the spitball champs snickering in the back of the class.
It's low. It's small. It's not gunna get ya into a high heaven.
And worst of all, your spitballs are pathetic -- you don't even have
a Don Rickles funny-side to your posts -- no bite, no irony, no
satire -- all we get from you two is a total lack of creativity in
every single post I've ever read of yours -- and I read almost all of
them. You both stink of ego that's been hardened into a sour POV
that's just not going to get straightened out in the life left to
you. Sucks, eh?
