From: "[email protected] [FairfieldLife]" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 6:31 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Views on Gita (was Love and God)
Turquoise:
Exactly. At its heart, the Gita is the story of Doing What You're Told By Your
Superiors, no matter what your own sense of discrimination, honor, and right
and wrong tell you.
I'd love to hear those who diss the Koran while praising the Gita explain to me
how the latter is any less of a call for Jihad (holy war) than the former.
In both books you've got the spiritual figure (Muhammed in the former, Krishna
in the latter) telling the faithful that it's their DUTY to go out and kill
thousands of people, *just because he says so*. Not only is this the way that
they achieve dharma (holy action, right action), it's the way that they attain
liberation in the afterlife. The only real difference I can see is that
Muhammed promises the dweebs who do what he tells them to do a bunch of virgins
in the afterlife and Krishna promises them moksha. And historically, followers
of both books have used them to justify their religious wars.
My suggestion is that Maharishi (and most commentators on the B-G) have never
seen this aspect of it because they grew up conditioned to do whatever a
supposedly religious figure told them to do. Devotion to the spiritual figure
is seen as a given, something they can't conceive of as being questionable or
having negative consequences. Having accepted this as not only normal but "the
highest dharma," they can't take that critical step back and see that what the
religious figure is telling them to do is go out and kill as many of their
fellow human beings (in the Gita's case, their own relatives) as possible, just
because he says so.
In a very real sense, Krishna in the Gita is the counterpart of Buck at FFL.
"We should send drones to kill these people I have designated as heretics. And
we should do this because I say so. So there."
-----
Turquoise,
I am all for exploring outside the box. Though, of course, simple being outside
the box, by it self, does not make something useful and valid. Perhaps nine of
ten, or 99 out of 100 things outside the box are dross and dead-ends. But
finding that one thing can I would hope, make the effort worthwhile.
I am sorry that 99% of the "out of the box" experiences you had on this planet
appeared to you as dead ends, and thus did not prove worthwhile. My experience
has been otherwise.
The demarcations of what is inside the box and outside may vary. At large
scale, Xeno had some wonderful replies to a set of Dev. posts. recently. One
theme being the universality of (at least) many religions and paths towards
unfolding that what is inside the "inner" box is the same as that which is
outside (the inner) box. On a more focussed scale, some may be living within a
quite small box and venturing outside is indeed may feel to be an escape from
Plato's Cave. I realize that like Russian dolls, others may be living inside a
larger box, already containing my little box and what to me are astonishing
insights are child's play to them. And if not abusing the analogy, we may be
living in different boxes pertaining to different spheres of our lives. For
example, someone well grounded in physics is living in a far vaster box than me
in that domain, though (well for the sake of argument) I may be living in a
larger box in at least a few domains within which their box is comparatively
smaller.
And it appears sometimes, what appears to be a large box is simply filled with
hot air, smoke and mirrors. That is, a concise simple view may actually be a
huge box -- having cut through all the jungle clutter. Thus, my suggesting that
you have viewed the Gita in simple terms is neither a dismissal or compliment
of your ideas. Each view needs to stand on its own merits.
Some thoughts:1) Per the story, prior to the battlefield, Krishna was Arjuna's
friend. Upon being asked, Krishna became Arjuna's servant, his charioteer -- a
lowly position. Only at Arjuna's request, did Krishna take on a role of
guidance and counsel. Not until quite late in the Gita did Krisha reveal his
universal form -- again at Arjuna's request. That form was so overwhelming,
Arjuna begged Krishna to return to his form as friend.
Arjuna asked many questions. Having gained insight from Krishna's replies,
Arjuna placed more weight on Krishna's value as an advisor. By the end, Arjuna
had all his questions answered, felt from his own view, that Krishna was the
real deal (for him, Arjuna) and had no qualms about taking the totality of
Krishna's advice .
So you're saying it's all OK if Arjuna drinks the Kool-Aid?
2) From your posts, I know you appreciate the role of metaphors. Many view the
battlefield in the Gita as metaphor -- which does not validate -- but perhaps
is worthy of consideration.
It may be. But not my consideration.
(a quick cut and past from Wiki)
Eknath Easwaran writes that the Gita 's subject is "the war within, the
struggle for self-mastery that every human being must wage if he or she is to
emerge from life victorious",[53] and that "The language of battle is often
found in the scriptures, for it conveys the strenuous, long, drawn-out campaign
we must wage to free ourselves from the tyranny of the ego, the cause of all
our suffering and sorrow."[54]Swami Nikhilananda, takes Arjuna as an allegory
of Ātman, Krishna as an allegory of Brahman, Arjuna's chariot as the body, and
Dhritarashtra as the ignorance filled mind.[note 7]Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi,
in his commentary on the Gita,[55] interprets the battle as "an allegory in
which the battlefield is the soul and Arjuna, man's higher impulses struggling
against evil".[56]Swami Vivekananda also emphasised that the first discourse in
the Gita related to the war could be taken allegorically.[57] Vivekananda
further remarked,
Show message history
3) The Gita is and has been seen quite distinctly by India and the world
through the ages. It is not a one-view- fits-all type of book. I found the
following book review useful in understanding that better.
War and Peace in the Bhagavad Gita by Wendy Doniger
| |
| | | | War and Peace in the Bhagavad Gita by Wendy ...How did Indian
tradition transform the Bhagavad Gita into a bible for pacifism, when it began
life as an epic argument persuading a warrior to engage in a battl... | |
| View on www.nybooks.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
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