You've been contributing some good stuff here lately, Xeno, but I have had
neither the time nor the inclination to comment on it. This morning, as it
turns out, I have both...
From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
Most of the people here probably went through a true-believer stage, at least
to some extent, and this probably includes most of those here with whom you
disagree. So these people can at least understand your position, but the
important point is a true-believer cannot understand the position of someone
who is outside that belief. Stable belief keeps the mind in a narrow range of
options of unreality, for a belief is a substitute for direct experience, it is
the mind's ossified interpretation of experience.
In a very real sense, being a True Believer -- in pretty much *anything* -- is
a form of handicap. TBs are cripples or "impaired persons," in that they lack
abilities that others around them take for granted. What is worse is that they
don't *know* that they are crippled.
As Xeno suggest, TBs are unable to understand the position of those who don't
believe the things they believe. They are so locked into the belief system
they've bought into that they literally cannot comprehend anyone not believing
the same thing. So when they encounter someone like that, they react by
assuming that there is something WRONG with the non-believer. The TB thinking
is, "There 'must' be something wrong with them, if they don't believe what I
believe."
This is, as Xeno suggests, an ossified state of mind. The TB is trapped within
the prison of his or her own belief system, and unable to grow out of it
because he/she is unable to even *listen* to other belief systems. TBness often
*requires* that he/she not even listen, because to do so is to possibly
entertain doubts, which are considered heretical.
A belief is simply a thought that one is convinced is true. Evidence is of no
concern.
Exactly. What is shocking sometimes on FFL is the number of people who actually
make claims that they CAN "know" that something is "true" without any evidence
except their own conviction that it is true. I don't know about you, but when I
encounter such people it's like encountering someone who stopped growing
intellectually in kindergarten.
A belief is essentially an opinion, emotionally held so tight it cannot be let
go of. A belief is a pretence of knowledge. It stands in place of knowledge.
I agree, especially with your incorporation of the emotional component. Many
people believe things, but they are not *attached* to those beliefs
emotionally, so we can't characterize them as TBs. You know you've encountered
a TB when a criticism of one of his/her beliefs is reacted to as if the critic
has attacked the TB personally. (This, BTW, is the point that "Buck" is
actually trying to sell. He wants people to buy into the notion that
criticizing a person's beliefs is a form of personal attack. It isn't.)
To get out of the mind trap of belief, one has to see that beliefs are not
real; this happens if the mind expands enough.
And probably *only* if the mind expands enough. By this I mean that I've never
really seen anyone admit that their formerly-held beliefs were not real on the
basis of newly-presented evidence. It's more as if their minds couldn't even
*perceive* the evidence -- much less accept it -- until something (usually
time) allowed their minds to grow beyond the confines of the TB prison. Their
minds have to expand to the point where they can admit the evidence into their
field of attention before they can actually change on the basis of it.
Only then can you see how well thought corresponds to experience, to facts, and
it is an ongoing battle to be able to do this because it is part of the
structure of human minds to have a certain level of gullibility built in, so
self-deception is always around the corner.
Once a person has managed to off-load various sets of beliefs, to them people
whose minds are fixed in a small range of ideas which they cannot let go of
appear basically as idiots.
Or maybe just pitiable. For example, I may have considered TBs like JR or Jim
or Nabby to be idiots because their *thinking processes* were so feeble as to
be classed as idiotic. But TBs like Judy weren't idiots, per se, just crippled.
On a *technical* level their minds still worked; they just weren't able to use
those minds to think outside the prison of their True Belief box.
Up to a point there is a certain amount of compassion for such a person
because most of us were in that vice ourselves, but if someone is so impacted
by belief that they never budge, such a one is an unforgivable idiot, having
turned their back on expansion of mind and experience in favour of a mental
rut, a mental prison from which they will not emerge.
Again, I wouldn't classify someone who refuses to budge out of the prison of
their TBdom an idiot. I think of them more as lazy and willing to *settle* for
the first easy answer that was provided to them than idiotic.
In order to break the repetitive cycle of belief, one has to honestly consider
any idea one has as possibly and even likely being untrue. Once that stance is
acquired, it becomes easier to evaluate what one and others say. Scientists
have to adopt such a stance as a matter of course or otherwise they would be
laughed out of the community of scientists, and it is not necessarily easy for
a scientist to do this for psychological reasons. Like drinking coffee or beer,
it is an acquired taste. Giving up cherished but wrong ideas can be a bitter
experience for some people.
"Bitter experience" doesn't really cover it. For someone who has remained a
True Believer for decades, *death* is often a more preferable option to them
than admitting that they things they believed in for so long weren't true.
