Oh well...never mind. "Wolf Hall" is well done, and from what I hear better
than the novels it is based on, but my strongest impression from the first
three episodes is the HUMORLESSNESS of it all. It's the most dour,
Protestant-Catholic awfulness I've been exposed to in quite some time, and
reminds me how incredibly SERIOUSLY some people take themselves when they've
convinced themselves they know the truth about things.
From: "[email protected] [FairfieldLife]"
<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Things they Believe..
Yes, the more I watch Wolf Hall themore acutely interesting the comparisons
are. Is raining here too, Ijust finished the historical side link on the PBS
page there about'Inside the Court of Henry VIII'.
For the last year I have been attendingmeditating community working committee
[Fairfield Mental HealthAlliance] meetings of the realm here and I see all the
characters andfear and vested interests of points of view. I am on several
butthis one sub-committee I am on had representatives of an uppertrustee sent
over to work with the committee. This small workinggroup is become like a
privy-council to the trustee. It is dangerouswork. These two are trusted at
that level and have access up anddown. Really effective guys, Not Rajas but
come in to this committeework a lot like Cromwell and that Stephen character
who Henry puttogether as his aides for a while to work for him in governance
workwith the elements of the kingdom.
I am always amazed that this one smallsub-committee has gone as far as we have
without these two guys beingarrested yet by the Prime Minister of the Global
Country. ..prolydoes not really understand what is being done between Lords
that viebetween regressive faith-based and merit-based progressive pressures.
Survival is and becomes really dangerous at that level as so manypeople who
serve at most any level are there at the pleasureultimately of the Prime
Minister.
Turns out I have been on the similarcommittees and have files from serving on
them that happened here inthe 1980's and the 1990's. It did not end well for
the people onthose committees then. This is the third time around for me
standingon this work.
Like with Norfolk and the old Lords in the end ofCromwell there is a
solidifying going on locally here now with who isthere at top, a bolstering and
bringing back old guard people whowere close around Maharishi and elevating
them to be ministers with and likeBevan that have portfolio different than even
Rajas. There's reallyonly about 30 Rajas that count now. Wolf Hall as like with
ourmovement culture of fear-mantras here in culture if you are in itthen it is
dangerous to have any outlaying feelings or opinion or atthe least voice it
unless you have protection; there is so much in Wolf Hall that is spot on. In
watching you got to fear for anyone who is dependent for place.
I am saving Wolf Hall #4 for tomorrow.
---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote :
Buck, it's been raining today so my planned picnic turned into a bust, so I've
watched a bit of "Wolf Hall," enough to know that it probably reveals far more
about your beliefs and mindset than you realize. -Well, that is presuming an
assumption
Could you do me a favor, in all seriousness? Write up and post a short synopsis
of the plot, as you see it. Who are the Good Guys, and why, and who are the Bad
Guys, and why? Thanks in advance... -I am learning the story line now
From: "TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]"
<[email protected]>
I have this series, Doug, but haven't gotten around to watching it. I'll
comment here when I do. Thanks for the reminder...
From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" <[email protected]>
Anybody watching the MasterpieceThreatre, Wolf Hall? There it is again in full
spectrum, the eternalstruggle of transcendentalism v consequences of
spiritualignorance... “On what and on whose side are you on? Self-knowledge v
the TB'er mind of faith-based religion?
Wolf Hall | Programs
| |
| | | | Wolf Hall | Programs Mark Rylance and Damian Lewis star in
Wolf Hall, based on the books of Hilary Mantel, and premiering on MASTERPIECE
on PBS Sundays, April... | |
| View on www.pbs.org | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
Watch Online
| |
| | | | Watch Online Watch full episodes, video shorts, previews and
cast interviews from Masterpiece on PBS, including programs such as Downton
Abbey and Sherlock. | |
| View on www.pbs.org | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
---In [email protected], <turquoiseb@...> wrote :
From: "Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]"
<[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: List Culture and The FFL Post Count
Most of the people here probably went through a true-believer stage, at least
to some extent, and this probably includes most of those here with whom you
disagree. So these people can at least understand your position, but the
important point is a true-believer cannot understand the position of someone
who is outside that belief. Stable belief keeps the mind in a narrow range of
options of unreality, for a belief is a substitute for direct experience, it is
the mind's ossified interpretation of experience.
In a very real sense, being a True Believer -- in pretty much *anything* -- is
a form of handicap. TBs are cripples or "impaired persons," in that they lack
abilities that others around them take for granted. What is worse is that they
don't *know* that they are crippled.
As Xeno suggest, TBs are unable to understand the position of those who don't
believe the things they believe. They are so locked into the belief system
they've bought into that they literally cannot comprehend anyone not believing
the same thing. So when they encounter someone like that, they react by
assuming that there is something WRONG with the non-believer. The TB thinking
is, "There 'must' be something wrong with them, if they don't believe what I
believe."
This is, as Xeno suggests, an ossified state of mind. The TB is trapped within
the prison of his or her own belief system, and unable to grow out of it
because he/she is unable to even *listen* to other belief systems. TBness often
*requires* that he/she not even listen, because to do so is to possibly
entertain doubts, which are considered heretical.
A belief is simply a thought that one is convinced is true. Evidence is of no
concern.
Exactly. What is shocking sometimes on FFL is the number of people who actually
make claims that they CAN "know" that something is "true" without any evidence
except their own conviction that it is true. I don't know about you, but when I
encounter such people it's like encountering someone who stopped growing
intellectually in kindergarten.
A belief is essentially an opinion, emotionally held so tight it cannot be let
go of. A belief is a pretence of knowledge. It stands in place of knowledge.
I agree, especially with your incorporation of the emotional component. Many
people believe things, but they are not *attached* to those beliefs
emotionally, so we can't characterize them as TBs. You know you've encountered
a TB when a criticism of one of his/her beliefs is reacted to as if the critic
has attacked the TB personally. (This, BTW, is the point that "Buck" is
actually trying to sell. He wants people to buy into the notion that
criticizing a person's beliefs is a form of personal attack. It isn't.)
To get out of the mind trap of belief, one has to see that beliefs are not
real; this happens if the mind expands enough.
And probably *only* if the mind expands enough. By this I mean that I've never
really seen anyone admit that their formerly-held beliefs were not real on the
basis of newly-presented evidence. It's more as if their minds couldn't even
*perceive* the evidence -- much less accept it -- until something (usually
time) allowed their minds to grow beyond the confines of the TB prison. Their
minds have to expand to the point where they can admit the evidence into their
field of attention before they can actually change on the basis of it.
Only then can you see how well thought corresponds to experience, to facts, and
it is an ongoing battle to be able to do this because it is part of the
structure of human minds to have a certain level of gullibility built in, so
self-deception is always around the corner.
Once a person has managed to off-load various sets of beliefs, to them people
whose minds are fixed in a small range of ideas which they cannot let go of
appear basically as idiots.
Or maybe just pitiable. For example, I may have considered TBs like JR or Jim
or Nabby to be idiots because their *thinking processes* were so feeble as to
be classed as idiotic. But TBs like Judy weren't idiots, per se, just crippled.
On a *technical* level their minds still worked; they just weren't able to use
those minds to think outside the prison of their True Belief box.
Up to a point there is a certain amount of compassion for such a person because
most of us were in that vice ourselves, but if someone is so impacted by belief
that they never budge, such a one is an unforgivable idiot, having turned their
back on expansion of mind and experience in favour of a mental rut, a mental
prison from which they will not emerge.
Again, I wouldn't classify someone who refuses to budge out of the prison of
their TBdom an idiot. I think of them more as lazy and willing to *settle* for
the first easy answer that was provided to them than idiotic.
In order to break the repetitive cycle of belief, one has to honestly consider
any idea one has as possibly and even likely being untrue. Once that stance is
acquired, it becomes easier to evaluate what one and others say. Scientists
have to adopt such a stance as a matter of course or otherwise they would be
laughed out of the community of scientists, and it is not necessarily easy for
a scientist to do this for psychological reasons. Like drinking coffee or beer,
it is an acquired taste. Giving up cherished but wrong ideas can be a bitter
experience for some people.
"Bitter experience" doesn't really cover it. For someone who has remained a
True Believer for decades, *death* is often a more preferable option to them
than admitting that they things they believed in for so long weren't true.
#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892 -- #yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp #yiv3284236892hd
{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp #yiv3284236892ads
{margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp .yiv3284236892ad
{padding:0 0;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp .yiv3284236892ad p
{margin:0;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mkp .yiv3284236892ad a
{color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv3284236892ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-sponsor #yiv3284236892ygrp-lc #yiv3284236892hd {margin:10px
0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-sponsor #yiv3284236892ygrp-lc .yiv3284236892ad
{margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892actions
{font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892activity
{background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892activity span:first-child
{text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892activity span a
{color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892activity span
span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892activity span
.yiv3284236892underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3284236892
.yiv3284236892attach
{clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
0;width:400px;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892attach div a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892attach img
{border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892attach label
{display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892attach label a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 blockquote {margin:0 0 0
4px;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892bold
{font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv3284236892
.yiv3284236892bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 dd.yiv3284236892last
p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv3284236892 dd.yiv3284236892last p
span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv3284236892
dd.yiv3284236892last p span.yiv3284236892yshortcuts
{margin-right:0;}#yiv3284236892 div.yiv3284236892attach-table div div a
{text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 div.yiv3284236892attach-table
{width:400px;}#yiv3284236892 div.yiv3284236892file-title a, #yiv3284236892
div.yiv3284236892file-title a:active, #yiv3284236892
div.yiv3284236892file-title a:hover, #yiv3284236892 div.yiv3284236892file-title
a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892 div.yiv3284236892photo-title a,
#yiv3284236892 div.yiv3284236892photo-title a:active, #yiv3284236892
div.yiv3284236892photo-title a:hover, #yiv3284236892
div.yiv3284236892photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892
div#yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3284236892ygrp-msg p a
span.yiv3284236892yshortcuts
{font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv3284236892
.yiv3284236892green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892MsoNormal
{margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv3284236892 o {font-size:0;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892photos div div {border:1px solid
#666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892photos div label
{color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv3284236892 .yiv3284236892replbq
{margin:4px;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-actbar div a:first-child
{margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg
{font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv3284236892 input, #yiv3284236892 textarea
{font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv3284236892 code {font:115%
monospace;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg *
{line-height:1.22em;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-mlmsg #yiv3284236892logo
{padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-msg p a
{font-family:Verdana;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-msg
p#yiv3284236892attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-reco #yiv3284236892reco-head
{color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-reco
{margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-sponsor
#yiv3284236892ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-sponsor #yiv3284236892ov li
{font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-sponsor #yiv3284236892ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0
8px;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-text
{font-family:Georgia;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em
0;}#yiv3284236892 #yiv3284236892ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv3284236892
#yiv3284236892ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none
!important;}#yiv3284236892
