---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote :
Look Aryavazhi, It's not problem if you have some inherent desire to argue. The fact that you so desperately wish to point out difference that don't exist, says a lot. Most everyone here has an interest in spiritual development. Among most here is a liberal, or libertarian bias. Culturally, there is great similiarly in what we like in terms of music and artisitic expressions. You just have a burr in your butt, because of, I don't know what, nor do I care. If you hitched your wagon to the wrong star long ago, you seem to repeating the same mistake here. Let's face it. All the negative attributes to ascribe to me, you accept in, say Barry, because you like him. But you are too I guess you weren't finished here, just interrupted your, and restart below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : Here you have people, who for the most part have similar beliefs, politically, culturally, spiritually, You are dead wrong. We are not all 'similar' in our beliefs, instead everyone is actually very different - both, in experience and understanding. If you don't understand this, it indeed explains, why you are so upset. Look Aryavazhi, It's not my problem if you feel some need to be argumentative. He..? Argumentative? I thought this is a discussion board.. The fact that you so desperately need to point out differences that don't exist, says a lot. That you don't think the differences exist, says even more about you. I mean, you accuse me of being argumentative, so it seems we have a different idea about discussion boards. Generally, I find you do not respond to arguments at all. There were at least two cases a week ago, were you responded to Barry of course, to whom else, and for a moment I thought, you could give some insightful comment, about the actualy issue at stake - you know it was about the earthquake, and people thinking they could stop it by yagna or Vastu, and the like, and all you did was your usual Ad Hominem, shooting the messanger, not a single word about the actual issue. Maybe there is something of an analysis you do, but then you don't tell us about. This post here, seems to be longer than your usual posting style. Usually what you write can be called oneliners. You just split up the line after every sentence with a carriage return. I don't know who said, that we have to set every sentence in it's own paragraph. But this style is symptomatic for the missing content. That's the reason why many regard you now as a troll, all your posts are basically alike, avoid touching the issue, are Ad Hominems to Barry, avoid arguments even if you could make them. To me, most of what you write below, is just a series of platitudes, you never even try to go deeper. You are clearly out to get_Barry, that's the meme you create, a throw around with buzzwords like strawman , without ever making an attempt to explain. You are always in shallow waters, glued to the surface of things. Most everyone here has an interest in spiritual development. Gosh, what platitudes.. Sure, we go in divergent directions from there, but that is the umbrella under which we have discourse. <sight> what umbrella, again more platitudes. You seem to be given to platitudes, simplifications, and generalizations mainly. Among most here is a liberal, or libertarian bias. Culturally, there is great similarly in what we like in terms of music and artistic expressions. That's seems obvious to me, but perhaps not to you. No, not to me, you are right. Btw. I am not American, I am European, I have never been to the US, and there are many things over there that are strange and bewildering to my mind. If you talk of liberal or libertarian bias, we are probably understanding something very different under these terms. As it is, I have spend no time at all in America, and much time in India, were the culture is again very different, but I have much understanding of it - and I have been told so by many Indians, so I can compare. The fact of the matter is, all the negative points you call me out on, you accept, in say, Barry, because you like him, or agree with his points of view. I agree with him on the issues I point out when I agree with him. There are other issues, where I don't agree. I off and on read stuff by him, and think, yeah, he is totally right. I know him for about 10 years on-line, and what I say, is what I think. Of course, he says many things in a way, I would never say them, so I don't necessarily agree with his mode of expression, but I am at the same level with MJ. But, I look at the issues, not at the form. Barry very often spices his posts up a bit, especially towards the end, but that doesn't invalidate the points he is actually making. You, on the other hand, respond only to the form, and usually jump to a one-sided ad hominem. That doesn't make you look very smart really. Barry pushes his anti cult agenda unabashedly. Yeah, so what? I find that he often misrepresents other peoples opinions and relies on straw man arguments. I am not here to speak for Barry, he is quite able to do this for himself. I concentrate on points that I find valuable, that actually coincide with my own outlook, and point these issues out. That doesn't mean I agree with everything he says, or even the way he puts it. We both use humor and satire, because we both think that we shouldn't lose the fun of life. Barry just happens to take on a perspective, which is spiritual in nature, and which I also have that is clearly outside of the TM dogma. It comes with being acquainted with a more general spiritual environment, and having been outside of the TM box for quite a while. It stems from confronting typical TM thinking, with important issues left off by TM, seeing through some of the 'tactics' or tricks used by the TM, and naturally evaluating them in a different way, than a TB TMer would do, if he ever came to see the same. I call him out on that, but you see those posts of mine as ad hominems, and everything he does as on target. Not everything he says is on target with me, but his posts may contain ad hominems, but NOT ONLY. He also transports valuable points, from a life of spirituality out-side of the box of TM, which some of you are clearly missing out on. I have known him for a long time, and, for many years there has been a back and forth between us, but, I always felt he was making some good points - something Judy never came to acknowledge. You seem to have inherited this Judy bug now since she is gone, and it's just easy to dismiss a whole group be demonizing one of it's members. There are several words for it: guilt by association would be one. having a common enemy will keep your group together, and among you guys, it seems to be a sort of courage test to come here. All what I have read of Jim and you here or over or even Ann where just platitudes and simplifications, and a constant need to justify yourself. But nobody cares. To the people here it seems, you mainly come here to either destroy the place, or at least disturb it, or just let some steam off, like guys of the priest seminary going to the Moulin Rouge. I guess we just have a difference of opinion. <snip> Again, it apparently serves your purposes to jump to conclusions. There is no doubt that Michael Jackson is heavily invested in seeing the demise of the TMO. But the fact of the matter is that he raises many good points. He does, in my opinion, choose to filter out anything that does not jibe with his narrative, but that's his business. I can't help but like him. Well, that's at least something. I liked Barry for many years, but there comes a point when the misrepresentations, the straw man set ups, the downright meanness became too much for me. You know, if you would also make other posts, then it would make more sense, but the basic story is like this: You had this big falling out as a group, and decided to leave altogether and follow Jim. I wasn't there at that moment, so I heard about it only later. So, that was a kind of a decision you made - from that moment on, there was no real need for you to read Barry's posts, if they were too much for you, which I can understand. Now you and a few other's come here regularly to have your drive-by-get-barry fest. For everybody here, this is just annoying. Why can't you let go? I personally was never attracted to the_leak, because I don't dig JIm. Not because Barry influenced me on him, I immediately disliked his show and demeanor, when I saw him first time on batgap, before I ever come across him on discussion boards. He is also a short-attention simplifier given to platitudes. On top of that he is totally delusional, one upmanship. Much of the topics over there are delusional spirituality, in my eyes. Exactly, just what I am saying. You single me out as a villain because you don't like my opinions. No, because you don't post content <snip> It looks like he's down to two or three friends here, so maybe that says something as well. And what, are there five or six regular posters in the whole lot of subscribers? So what? What's your problem with all of that? TM is going down, I personally don't want to be engaged into the TM mindset in one way or the other, and as someone said here recently, most of the stuff has already been said. I am myself not even interested in news about FF, or any of the other places, of groups in Mexico or the Bahamas, or India or Girish or the latest outfit of the kings wife, or the latest clip of Lynch etc. And I have never in all the years called for anybody here to be dismissed from FFL, instead leaving myself several times out of various reasons, sometimes because of time limits, but also sometimes because of Judy or, even before because of Barry, but I never made a show out of it, or for FFL to be disolved or for the posting rules to be changed. I do not make constant appeals to Rick or Alex. And also, I do not make drive by's at the leak
