I take the "eastern" view that until the child takes their first breathe
they are nothing but an growth on the woman. There's really no soul
there because no "shakti" which is the basis of consciousness has not
entered the vessel. The thing about the religious dummies is they want
to stop abortion but are unwilling to adopt kids from mothers who can't
take care of them. They are a bunch of stupid hypocrites. And just
wait until one of their daughters gets raped by a felon to see how fast
she gets shuffled off to have an abortion
On 09/19/2015 11:33 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
Actually, I believe I was giving a non religious explanation against
abortion. The very founding documents, our nation are built upon,
recognizes our unalienable(can not be denied) rights to *Life*
liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You can't have liberty or
happiness without Life. These rights are attributed to an All Mighty
Creator because if such a thing existed, who is anyone to deny them?
The very same person that wrote those words also wrote about the
concept of a separation of Church and state. So, they are separate
issues. The basic human rights recognized by the government are not
religion based.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2015 11:05 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
This whole abortion "debate" seems like such a set up. Why proclaim
that due to religious principles, abortion is murder, or that gay
marriage is sin, and then live in the USA? I am not suggesting such
believers should leave, though it seems like an awful lot of heartache
to go through, to insist on a religious truth so strenuously, that to
have the opposite practiced by some, becomes a constant thorn in the
believer's side. Who wants to live like that? It seems like a set up,
designed to cause the believers additional pain, and have them become
co-dependent on such ideas, and the organizations that publicize them.
Life is tough enough, imo.
And the issue is NOT that the Christians cannot live by their beliefs.
No one is insisting *they* get abortions or participate in gay
marriage. However, they and the radical pastors that preach to them
have determined that both of these issues are somehow unholy, and
their very practice is an abomination against God. This in no way
begins to validate the freedom of each of us to live our lives as we
see fit. Religious barriers, no matter how well intentioned, are
better practiced personally, vs. imposed on anyone else. I also see a
lot more commonality between the fundamentalists of any religion, be
they Christians or Muslims, than any side is willing to admit.
I do agree that there is a natural law in back of all of this, which
we are all personally held to, and responsible for. However, each of
us has to make that judgment of ourselves independently. No one can do
this for us, or impose it on us, no matter how convinced of their
truths they may be.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
We hold these truths to be self evident... certain unalienable
Rights,among these are LIFE! Unalienable is defined as, *can not be
denied*. Without the most fundamental right of life, no other rights
matter. When does life begin? Theologically, that is open to
discussion. Biologically, it begins when Conjoined DNA begins to
divide. It is the very beginning of life, it's self.That DNA is not
the mother's, it's not the father's, it is the unique DNA of separate
human being with all of it's potential from beginning to end. It has a
right that can not be denied. Socially and theologically speaking,
that unalienable right to life is considered sacred as long as it is
innocent. Violate specific laws of society and that sacred value can
be forfeited by the law breaker, it's his conscious decision. But
never was it intended to to be denied on a basis of someone else's
circumstances/ convenience. Do we really want to go down that road?
Hitler did, as did many other tyrants and they have been traditionally
labeled as EVIL, even Anti-Christ. I speak in biological terms of life
because we value our society in secular terms and spiritual values are
not considered valid anymore because certain people don't want other's
religions imposed upon them..
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:44 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
To me, black and white thinking takes on the cloak of "casual,
indifferent, etc.", or "blasé," if you will. The remark "Oh shit! I
missed my period! I'm really *f"ed* now!" seemed off the cuff and
appeared to indicate a prejudiced and surficial understanding of the
issue...."blasé."
Curiously, Mike, do you believe in the soul? Do you believe in the
eternal soul? Do you believe that the soul dies along with a
potential life that was aborted by the mother, a potential life that
could not survive independently at 6 weeks and that even nature aborts
naturally at times (called miscarriages). Do you believe that it
could be possible that if there is a soul, that the soul may "live" to
incarnate in a different host/mother? Just food for thought.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
I draw the line with *murder* as one human willfully killing another
innocent human. There's manslaughter, accidents etc.Then there is
killing for food.I can admire one who observes ahimsa as going above
and beyond the call of duty as a penance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "awoelflebater@... [FairfieldLife]"
<FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2015 12:15 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
"My blase attitudes", did I get that right? How can anything be more
blase than to sweep away and destroy an innocent human life because
you're not ready to be responsible for*it* yet? It's freaking murder!
A women's right to murder? The Supreme Court will wake up one day,
just as they did when they ruled one human can not own another or that
Slaves were not 3/5ths of a human being, because "all men are created
equal" under the law. That took two hundred years to get right , but
it happened. Science is moving the understanding of life forward very
fast. If the science of DNA can put a person in prison for life for a
crime, it will save a life that is innocent of a crime. It's not her
body that she kills. FYI, all person's involved in the creation of
another, need to be equally responsible for that life. Yes, that
presents new social problems but the first rule is do no harm to
innocent life.
I love your passion, Mike. I am of the belief that all lives are
created equal. When I say that I mean ALL lives. Human or animal.
Blasphemous? Perhaps. Maybe. Likely. To kill any thing is a kind of
murder. Killing a fetus is destroying life. Butchering a terrified,
bleating cow is destroying a life. Euthanizing an old and decrepit dog
is destroying a life. Is life sacred? Probably. What is sacred?
Anything that is created. Is allowing something to live sometimes
opening the way for suffering? Yes. Is destroying a life sometimes
decreasing the chances of suffering? Yes. Is it better to overdose a
dangerous horse with phenyl barbital so it doesn't kill somebody
merciful? Is aborting an unwanted baby the right thing to do? Is there
ever the justification for causing death of a living being? It all
gets so complicated. Is the death penalty ever warranted? Are
unwanted, unloved, abused children happy to have been given the chance
to live despite the fact they may have been conceived by rape? I can't
answer this but what I do know is that human beings are given hundreds
of chances to make choices every moment of every day and the freedom
to make those choices must remain intact.
*From:* "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, September 18, 2015 9:38 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
There is another issue I'd like to comment on about ignorant men
thinking they know all about pregnancy and childbirth and raising
children on their own with no support—particularly the ones that think
they should judge, condemn, and legislate women's rights. Yes, Mike,
it's the girl "who missed her period" that's at fault, right? Not the
boy or man with the raging hormones who pressured her and pressured
her and pressured her to give in to his desires and then left the
scene.....give me a break.
I'm not saying you shouldn't stand by your religious convictions, but
maybe you ought to dig a little deeper into your "blasé" attitudes.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote :
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are *Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness*- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
Your right to *privacy* will not stand against another person's right
to Life.... much longer, religion or no religion. You will need to
abolish the first amendment that grants freedom of political speech
and freedom of religion first. Everyone knows that the overwhelming
majority of abortions in this country are simply birth control, "Oh
shit! I missed my period! I'm really *f"ed* now!" It's rarely about
health or life of the mother. Fifty-three million abortions can not
account for that. "
"Why would I want my daughter to be *punished* with a child?" Obama's
words, not mine. This is the mind set of *Me first* and to hell with
what's right. It is the purest of evil and it will not stand.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* "authfriend@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, September 18, 2015 12:21 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] 'Debate from Hell'
Whether you like it or not, abortion is legal in this country. To
jeopardize the health of poor women because of your religious
convictions is untenable.
