---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <dhamiltony2k5@...> wrote :
By e-mail to FFL, FW: I was trying to post this comment to the abortion thread: Just popping in on this conversation, not having followed the thread, but for what it’s worth, Maharishi used to say that the soul enters the body several months into the pregnancy. Prior to that, abortion is like “removing a wart” – his words. After that, it would have more serious implications. There’s a story at the beginning of the Mahabharata where a woman agrees to marry a king if he promises never to question anything she does. He agrees, and she ends up throwing the first 5 or 6 of her newborn children into a river. Finally, the king can’t stand it any more and objects, so that child lives. Turns out, the children were gods who had been cursed to take birth as human beings. They had worked out a plea deal in which their lives would be mercifully short. But the main offender was doomed to live an ordinary lifespan, so he was the one not thrown into the river. "A wart", wow. That is pretty interesting language. Here is a fetus at 7 weeks. A developing life, yes. A victim of "murder" if aborted by a doctor? A victim of homicide if rejected by the body? I don't know. Either way it is the end of a life, something that happens all of the time in every species for a million reasons. Sacrilege? Sin? Aberration of natural law? I believe we all need to allow expectant mothers to make their choice based on all of the complexity of factors dogging them when faced with an "unwanted" pregnancy. "Unwanted" can be for a host of reasons ranging from rape by a relative to endangerment of the mother's life were she to have a child to extreme poverty where the father might be a pedophile or HIV positive. There is no easy answer just as the solution is often not easy. But if terminating a small seed of life means there will be less suffering somewhere along the way then perhaps that is the answer. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emily.mae50@...> wrote : That's been a point of mine for awhile - that it's a decision, a very personal decision, that the woman makes. It's not an easy one—not simply a cold, heartless, decision. A hard decision. A decision made as her hormones are ramping up to high levels and changing all the chemistry, let's remember. No doubt there are spiritual and emotional consequences that have to be personally worked through. It's not one where the woman should be condemned and vilified and accused of *murder.* Give me a break! Fear leads to procrastination and procrastination can lead to death. Most of the images shown are of "later-stage" (later than the 6 to 8 week optimal time) abortions, used to support the "pro-life" movement and rabid evangelists. The earlier the better for all involved and my belief is, that if we "decriminalized" it as a society, women would be better off and wouldn't have to face the kind of shame and blame that can lead to death. The best option is always to avoid pregnancy if not wanted, but that doesn't always happen in real life. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sundur@...> wrote : I guess early on the fetus is just a "tissue", and really, I am not sure what the term is when abortions are legal, but many of the images of abortions I have seen don't look like just a mass of "tissue". I am not disputing a woman's right to choose, but it appears to often come with emotional turmoil. A close associate of mine recently had an abortion. It was, in my opinion the right decision and she felt good about it, but now, several months later, she is struggling a bit emotionally. I would also have to say, that I don't think a fetus, from a spiritual perspective, is likely to have a "better luck next time" attitude about the whole event. I believe there is a behind the scenes scenario that plays out whereby a soul prepares to reincarnate. At what point that soul may enter, or take ownership of the fetus, I don't know. Perhaps, if I had a better understanding of that more esoteric aspect of "it", I would have a better idea of what, if any, are the unseen implications of an abortion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emily.mae50@...> wrote : Go ahead and stand on your soapbox, Mike. Stand there all day if you like! It's time for me to get off mine. :) Seems to me that the population of the planet is not suffering in the least from a woman's right to abortion! Yes, birth control, in the sense that the tissue is not be allowed to continue growing into a human being. Her body, her decision. Period. The decision is made by the woman for the good of the woman and of the potential child. That's the way I see it, hands down. As a woman and the mother, she should retain the *right* to make that decision. I'm all for birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, make no mistake. Maybe you'll be reincarnated as a woman next time around and will get the opportunity to be a mother too. I don't know when the soul enters the body, so to speak. I truly, deep in my heart, do not consider it a problem. If there is a loving God/Creator spirit, I am perfectly comfortable with the idea that the soul returns to Source, no harm done. There is no *blame* involved, Mike. God, you sound judgmental! Have a better day! Thanks for the conversation. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : Well, at least you've admitted, though indirectly, that most abortions are birth control. Unacceptable. Too many ways to prevent it in the first place. In your mind, at what point does one become a sentient being? I think Nancy Pelosi says "not until *it* leaves the hospital. The blame rests with the person choosing to have the abortion, unless she's forced to have one. From: "emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be... Long day Mike? Of course the newborn can live on its own. After all, it has been "born!" If the babe is not cared for, it will die, but that's not what we're talking about here. Most abortions occur before 8 weeks gestation - a collection of cells barely beginning to form into tissue. "Murder" is the premeditated taking of a human being's life. No human being there, Mike. Simply the potential - many things go wrong. Ultimately, Mike, you blame the mother in all cases—whether she aborts in accordance with her free will and belief system and/or economic or married state—or, if she has the child, and finds herself unsupported in a myriad of ways and in need of help. You kick her and her child both, who you choose to legitimize as a child and revere only in the "unborn" state (kids are so much easier to deal with when unborn!) to the curb, and then sit on the sidelines and judge and mock and resent having any responsibility for as a member of our society and go even further and suggest she should get her tubes tied! Incredible!! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : You say that " there is no way to consider the termination of a being that can not live on it's own as murder.' Do you think the courts would find a mother guilty of murder if she took her new born child, who could not live on it's own, out into the desert and left it to die or drowned it, knowing full well what she was doing? From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be... That is a step in the right direction, though you are hanging out with the wrong deity if they consider abortion to be murder. You say the mother is being selfish. Fine, let her be selfish. There is no way to consider the termination of a being that cannot live on its own, "murder". It has never been so defined. Not in the courts, nor the holy books of any religion, including all of the sects of Christianity. It is NEVER called "murder". This equation is a new fiction created by those who are attempting to impose their will on others. It is a weak and sleazy way to operate, and very cynical of humanity in general, as if in 2016 the average person cannot figure out what is best for them, unless someone misinterprets the Bible and starts calling abortion, "murder", to dishonestly game that issue. So, calling abortion "murder", is based solely on imagination, without any basis in science or scripture. Fantasy. A very offensive way to operate when you seek to impose such a fantasy on others. These crazy thoughts equating abortion to murder are to be shared in a congregation perhaps, but they have no business whatsoever being expressed publicly, except as freedom of speech. Abortion as Murder? Absolute hogwash. Shame on you, and those who perpetuate such a ridiculous idea, seeking to impose it on others in the name of God. Blasphemy is all that is. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : Ollie, one can get hung up in *religion* or hung up in a relationship with the Almighty. Scripture can help you do either one.I'll take the relationship one. From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be... Yep, I understand your point, Mike. If I believed as you do, what you have written below, I would feel quite a commitment to "save" others also. I mean that with all respect for your faith. Equally so, I hope you can accept that I see it as opinion and interpretation, even the biblical prophet bit that many accept as truth with a capital "T". Sounds like a great way to answer every question - for yourself and others so inclined. However, there are many many paths to God, and yours is simply one of them. Please let the rest of us find our own way too. It is eminently possible to live a good, moral, God loving life, without the Christian faith, or any of them, actually. There is also no universal requirement to take Jesus Christ as one's savior, though he apparently serves in that role for quite a few people. I am not knocking it, just saying that this is not a *requirement* for a spiritually oriented life. I see any religion as more a personal preference, though exposure to religion is very useful, so that we have a choice to adopt a strong identification with it, or not. Religion also exposes us to the many ways we can approach God, for example, prayer, hymns, and meditating. At this time in my life, I choose not to follow (or oppose) any religion, and focus my efforts on directly enjoying God's creation, instead. No subtitles.:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : BTW Ollie,a Biblical Prophet is one who is ordained by God Almighty to be His spokesperson. This verse clearly says that Jeremiah is God's messenger to the Gentiles, the Nations, non Jews. He clearly says that it is He that forms us in our mothers womb and that He knew you before He started and that He has a plan for your life. If you interfere in that plan by killing someone that He is creating for His purposes, that is the ultimate evil. That is Satanic/Demonic. Isaiah says *woe*, that is great grief, suffering and trouble for those that can't distinguish right from wrong and confuse the two. Karma's a bitch! From: "Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be... You quote Samuel Clemence and I quote the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You brought up religion with your justifications of abortion and deeming interference with a woman's right to choose as sin. My original argument was purely constitutional. From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be... "Man is kind enough when he is not excited by religion" - Mark Twain ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : JEREMIAH 1:5 I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations. Abortion is clearly not life sustaining or supporting. ISAIAH 5:20 Woe unto those that call good bad and bad good. From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be... It is clearly the woman's vessel that carries the embryo until it is born as a human being, and she certainly has the inalienable right to treat that embryo any way she chooses to, including the choice to get rid of it. No harm, no foul, no sin, and no problem, unless the men decide to make it one, which of course goes against the will of God. So you see, by opposing a woman's right to an abortion it is you who commits the sin, by denying her freedom. Those preaching this anti-abortion message are the great sinners, the ones that deny God the freedom he gave each of us. So, Mike, please go forth and sin no more. Men denying women the right to an abortion is clearly a massive sin under God, and always will be. There will never be a sane justification to do so. By the same token, a woman choosing an abortion for whatever reason is sinless, and will always be. The notion of sin doesn't even enter into such an action. It is completely morally justified and a very very personal choice, needing no interference from the self-righteous and anti-social elements in this country. This argument that it is "murder" is so crazy, and designed for maximum guilt-tripping. How can something unable to exist in the world be murdered? Makes no sense, and is simply mental gymnastics employed for this repressive thinking. More medieval thinking. It amazes me that this is even an issue in 2016. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mdixon.6569@...> wrote : No Ollie, it's not OK. "We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men are are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among them are *LIFE*, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness." OK? It's not her body. That can be proven with a simple DNA test. From: "olliesedwuz@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] This is what Amerika's gonna be...
