--- In [email protected], "Irmeli Mattsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The thing that's fascinating to me is the "trickle- > > down craziness" involved with this. It's not just a > > case of some lazy fucks realizing that there is an > > easy way to avoid working, and that it's called > > begging. That's just one side of the phenomenon and > > of the conditioning. > > > > The other side of the conditioning is seen in the > > *sponsors*, the people who have been taught that > > there is some *benefit* to themselves that accrues > > when they pay so that these guys and gals never have > > to work. It's a remarkably symbiotic relationship; > > one side of the equation couldn't exist without > > the other. > > > > I know that a lot of people here and in spiritual > > trips in general just assume that this is all a given, > > and that it's always worked this way -- people who > > have chosen a full-time spiritual "career" being > > supported by those who have money and have chosen > > a more householder path. I'm challenging the very > > *idea* because I really believe that it's a *bad* > > idea, and that most of the problems that one can > > find in *any* spiritual tradition spring from this > > assumption, and from this practice. Historically, > > the spiritual traditions in which the monks or > > clergy pay their own way in life, and are *not* > > supported by the "rank and file" members of the > > organization, seem to me to be much cleaner and > > spiritually healthier. > > > > Just *think* about it for a moment -- it's one of > > the biggest scams in human history. In almost every > > era and in every tradition, all that you had to do > > to avoid getting a job like everybody else was to > > claim to be "spiritual" and get other people to pay > > so that you could be "spiritual" full time. I'm > > open to the possibility that many of these full-time > > teachers might have done a few nice things for the > > world, but when you look at it objectively, it's > > really quite amazing that no one really challenges > > the status quo of this whole scene and questions > > it. The meme of the rank-and-file rabble paying > > for the lives of the spiritual elite is that > > taken for granted, that ingrained in the collective > > consciousness. > > > > **** > This is healthy questioning. > > The kind of giving where you buy yourself a good conscience and a > better feeling of yourself by the giving, makes me feel quite > uncomfortable. It could be healthy to ask oneself: why do I need to > buy myself a good conscience? > > A lot of developmental aid has been given to the developing countries, > but how much has it really helped those people? Look at Africa? Could > it be worse without the aid and interfering in the lives of those > people by westerners in the name of charity. > > I am all for support for the poor and weak. Unfortunately this support > often comes in a form that makes it possible for people to continue > with the attitudes and lifestyle that has made them poor and weak. > Basically the same applies for spiritual people. > > The idea of people in spiritual organizations living luxurious lives > through actively collecting support money feels disgusting. Even more > disgusting feels the present trend in many organizations to collect > money to charity purposes and then actually use at least part of that > money to empire building for your organization and your own luxurious > life. > > Mother Theresa is often seen as an epitome of selfless giving. But was > she really? She also powerfully preached against birth control. In > other words she actively contributed to the situation that a lot of > children are born to unbearable life-conditions. And then she created > herself a halo by bringing a little bit relief to a few of those > unfortunate beings. > I have heard that Indian government doesn't like the work of her > organization, because it attracts poor people to the big cities, which > increases the problems of the slums. These people would be better off > in their villages. > > We send food aid to people in hunger. And what is the result? These > people breed like rabbits. The number of people living in unbearable > conditions multiplies. And no incentive appears for them to change > their values and attitudes and lifestyle, that has lead to their > present problems. snip +++ Alot of the people don't realize or believe they are subject to the laws of nature that govern the animals. Too much of a concentration in one place exhausts all the rescources and they will have to move to a more favorable location or starve. You have to wonder if it is unkind to let someone be miserable if they insist on it. Again, my compliments on your English. N.
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