--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mar 12, 2006, at 6:52 PM, authfriend wrote: > > > > > > > they're simply people responding to the post reagrding some style > > > of mindfullness or some simple adjustment that prevented "laxity" > > > or sleep during meditation. It's an important problem--even in the > > > dome in FF--so people responded affirming that. But all the people > > > who responded *had* a problem *and solved it on their own*. Nothing > > > in checking or the TMO provided an answer for them. > > > > The *content* of a communication isn't what makes > > it privileged, so this is a non sequitur. > > Actually Rick did observe, on-list, his own interactions with > Mahesh, and M's response/advice reading these issues. These > consitituted not only online communication,
MMY's using email now? but specific advice on TM and forms of > mindfulness training--how to maintain focus without falling into > torpor or laxity. This is an extremely important fine-point > because not only to we have a record of them occurring, but we also > can observe that checking instructions were not modified to include > these suggestions, nor were instructional advice in the initial > technique. Obviously I can't comment on any of this without knowing what was actually said. (But just out of curiosity, what is the antecedent of "them"?) > > But to address this on its own terms: > > > > Since the checking notes explicitly say that sleep > > during meditation is *not* a problem, no wonder they > > didn't find a "solution" in checking. That sleep is > > not a problem *is* the answer as far as checking is > > concerned. > > > > It appears that the only "problem" they had in this > > case was that they were incorrectly viewing sleep > > *as a problem*. > > > > As to "laxity," the only "laxity" I'm aware of in the > > TM context is not bothering to return to the mantra > > once you become aware you're off it. So the "problem" > > there is simply not following the instructions for > > meditation. > > > > Or did you have some other sense of "laxity" in mind? > > But for others obviously it was Obviously it was *what*? > --and they received advice as to how to transform that laxity. > > > > > <snip> > > > > But I'm not interested in pressing that point. I'm > > > > really only interested in the effortlessness > > > > question. > > > > > > But that is the question that's been answered already. Therefore I > > > have no need to lament or rehash. > > > > Well, no, of course it hasn't been answered. One > > quote of MMY quoting something from the Veda, without > > any context, does not constitute an answer to the > > question of whether TM is effortless. > > Maybe not for you. See my most recent post on this very topic. Yes, I saw it. I'll have another look, but my initial reading suggested it was not written to be understood or to actually communicate. <snip> > > But "transcending" is used in another sense in TM, i.e., > > the attention moving to more subtle levels of thought. > > Just closing the eyes--even if one has not sat down to > > meditate--results in transcending in this sense. > > That's a very gross redefinition Well, no, actually using it to mean having the experience of transcendental consciousness is the redefinition. --particuarly if you look at what > this means in regards to the root texts from which this meditative > tradition comes. Which is unnecessary, of course, in the TM context. What we need to know is what MMY means by the terms. Nevertheless, there *is* confusion in the TM context over the two meanings of "transcend," which can indeed be problematic. > IMO a lot of problems issue from the fact that while > M. often posits his View from the POV of Advaita Vedanta (albeit a > reworked version of Advaita Vedanta) his method and path are from > the dualistic Yoga-darshana. That disconnect between View (non- > dual, Advaita Vedanta ) and Path (dualistic yoga) is bound to > cause problems, particularly if you are not aware of the inherent > disconnect in Path NOT corresponding to View (darshana). Unless you understand that from MMY's POV, there is ultimately no disconnect. But we're getting off the topic, aren't we? Never mind. I had hoped you were going to actually *respond* to what I wrote. Too bad. > > > > > > > > Remember when we forget the mantra, we quietly come back to it. > > > > > It's a very simple, natural process. > > > > > > > > Do you not see the difference between "come back to" > > > > and "bring back to"? "Come back to" is much less > > > > intentional. The TM verbal instructions can't completely > > > > avoid intentional language, but they come as close as > > > > they can. > > > > > > > > And the point *I* was making initially is that only > > > > when you've first begun the practice do you exercise > > > > even *that* much intention. Later on the process > > > > becomes automatic. > > > > > > For some people it does, for some it does not. Some people *never* > > > transcend. Sad, but true. > > > > True, but not necessarily "sad," if you mean they're not > > experiencing transcendental consciousness by itself. If > > the process never becomes automatic, that *is* "sad," but > > only in the sense that the person hasn't really got the > > knack of TM. > > > > > In the way you are describing some > > > conditioned or subconsciousness mental substratum is necessary > > > to "automatically" come back. > > > > Perhaps, but if it isn't conscious, to call it "effort" > > is a misnomer. > > Since it actually represents a species of "mindfulness", it is > appropriate to use "effort". See latter post for further > explanation. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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