--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 2006, at 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hyperbolicgeometry"
> > > <hyperbolicgeometry@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is "absolutely"
> > > > effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness.
> > > > If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you
> > > > regardless of the amount of effort, excellent.
> > >
> > > Yup. This whole tempest in a teapot is about a few
> > > TMers feeling panicky because they're realizing that
> > > the simplistic portrayal of TM as 'effortless' isn't
> > > quite true.
> > 
> > And it goes deeper than this one example.
> > 
> > > They're jumping on the issue of 'effortlessness'
> > > and beating it deader than a dead horse so that
> > > they can avoid thinking about what *other* things
> > > that were told to them might not be true.
> > >
> > > In other words, it's an exercise in attachment...
> > 
> > ...and aversion/denial. It's amazing what one little 
> > comment can do.
> Indeed. A couple of people mention that they've learned
> techniques of meditation that are either as effortless
> as TM or (in their opinion) more so, someone posts a 
> quote from Maharishi himself stating that TM isn't
> completely effortless, and the shit hits the fan. :-)

Or, someone posts a quote of MMY quoting the Vedas
without any kind of context, and some folks
*interpret* it as his stating that TM isn't completely

(And just for the record, that quote was produced well
after the shit hit the fan.)

> People start jumping all over each other, normally-
> mutually-supportive TBs start arguing with each other
> over whose meditation is more effortless and thus more
> superior,

This is apparently Barry's take on my discussion with
Lawson.  Does anybody else think this is an accurate

 a normally non-TB poster becomes a private 
> dick with a mission from God to "prove" TM the only 
> effortless technique available, and it goes on and 
> on and on for hundreds if not thousands of lines.
> And all because two simplistic pieces of dogma ("TM is
> effortless" and "TM is unique") have been repeated so
> often that some people have come to believe that they're 
> up there with the Word Of God, sacrosanct, never to be 
> questioned or challenged.

Or, they're describing their personal experience with TM,
which happens to confirm that TM is effortless.  (In my
case, I hadn't the foggiest idea what the referent of
the term "effortless" was until I'd had the experience.)

Moreover, far from believing that I'm never to be
questioned or challenged, I *invite* questioning and
challenge (just as Shemp has invited challenge to the
"TM is unique" assertion).

 It's all pretty funny, actually. 
> Unless, of course, you happen to be one of the ones for 
> whom the Word Of God has been questioned...then it's 
> obviously deadly serious.
> WHAT DOES IT MATTER whose technique is more effortless,
> or whether the TM technique is "unique" or not?

Different issue entirely.  Maybe it matters that TM
is effortless and unique, maybe it doesn't.  But that
isn't what we've been discussing.

 In this
> whole brouhaha, it seems to me that sparaig and hyperbolic
> have the right idea -- if the technique works for them, 
> WHERE'S THE PROBLEM? But others seem to be acting like 
> if they allow even one insignificant point of the TM 
> dogma to be challenged, then the whole teaching and
> belief system is going to fall apart for them like 
> a house of cards.

Speaking of "hyperbolic"...  In fact, *nobody* is
acting like that in this discussion.

I personally feel this *particular* point is the
bottom line with regard to TM, and it's just about
the only one I absolutely insist on.  And since it
isn't a belief but a direct personal experience, it's
hard to imagine how challenges to it could cause any
of my belief system to fall apart.

> Weird, if you ask me...

Barry, it's your fantasies that are weird, not the

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