On Apr 9, 2006, at 11:31 AM, anon_couscous_ff wrote: > --- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > From what I know, and what I have seen > > > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done > there: The > > > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in > terms of > > > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite > often > > > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.) > > > > > > Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out. > > However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go on > > rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma- > > chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of TMO > > people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said". In every case > I am > > aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of those > > states or the experience. There's a strong element of grandiosity in > > it all. > > In some posts there seems to be a jumping around between a describing > a dualistic state, turiyatita, and the non-dual state, brahma-chetana, > and/or equating them. And even apparent references to and confusion > about a turiya type experience being "non-dual". The words imply some > embedded (non)-logic along the lines of "Consciousness is awake to > itself, Consciousness is Brahman, therefore I am in Brahman > Consciousness."
Very much so. But expect to be attacked by some egos if you mention or point this out! It was even suggested that I should be happy and delighted that people are claiming to be enlightened--and I couldn't help but think "did the person who said that have the understanding that I would feel that way if I felt that was the case? What did they think I would feel if it was not the case?" In a real sense, if we keep any framework, which had a beginning in time, it is just 'lust of result'--attachment to the fruit of our practice. Addiction to the idea of enlightenment is still addiction. > > > It's interesting, I was reading some prophecies from the 8th century > > regarding when non-dual teaching would start coming to the cities of > > the west and they describe this very phenomenon and what will happen > > very precisely. One of the comments is 'if it were so easy to reach > > perfect Buddhahood, the ocean of samsara would already have been > > drained long ago.' > > > > "Masters of old lashed out at those who claimed to be > > enlightened yet refused to be tested, calling them > > "earthworms living in the slime of self-validated > > satori"." > > -Philip Kapleau Roshi > > > > How many were tested by their teachers? would be my > > question--but I already know the answer. > > And, it seems, those not tested self-proclaimed ones then go on to > proclaim others as "Brahman" or whatever. Oh yes. And they'll attack you for questioning or mentioning certain blind spots. > > And not particularly open to questioning about their statements, by > "peers". That is another type of testing, albeit a lower level, with > quesions such as -- is the experience parallel to that of others, are > there logical inconsistencies being presented, and are claimed > charactristics of a claimed state manifest in the claimer? Yes, yes, yes! > > Questioners are at times cast as "snakes" or as being jealous of not > having any experience, etc. It seems that if the experience is true, > and the interpretation of it is strong, any and all questions would be > welcome. Answering questions can be a catalyst deeper understanding, > to bring light to unexplored perspectives and nuances. Yepper. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
