--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 11:31 AM, anon_couscous_ff wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2006, at 4:59 AM, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > > From what I know, and what I have seen > > > > in the Satsang movement, this is exactly what is being done > > there: The > > > > truth of non-duality is being pointed out and explained in > > terms of > > > > his own everyday experience, it is being discussed, and quite > > often > > > > people are guided towards self-inquiry ('who am I'.) > > > > > > > > > Yes this is what is happening in some cases IMO. Pointing out. > > > However at the same time after some are "introduced" they go on > > > rather quickly to claim Buddhahood, Unity Consciousness (brahma- > > > chetana), Cosmic Consciousness (turiyatita) or in the case of TMO > > > people, they go on to claim what "Maharishi said". In every case > > I am > > > aware of, none of these people would fit the definition of those > > > states or the experience. There's a strong element of grandiosity in > > > it all. > > > > In some posts there seems to be a jumping around between a describing > > a dualistic state, turiyatita, and the non-dual state, brahma- chetana, > > and/or equating them. And even apparent references to and confusion > > about a turiya type experience being "non-dual". The words imply some > > embedded (non)-logic along the lines of "Consciousness is awake to > > itself, Consciousness is Brahman, therefore I am in Brahman > > Consciousness." > > Very much so. > > But expect to be attacked by some egos if you mention or point this out! > > It was even suggested that I should be happy and delighted that > people are claiming to be enlightened--and I couldn't help but think > "did the person who said that have the understanding that I would > feel that way if I felt that was the case? What did they think I > would feel if it was not the case?" > > In a real sense, if we keep any framework, which had a beginning in > time, it is just 'lust of result'--attachment to the fruit of our > practice. Addiction to the idea of enlightenment is still addiction. > > > > > > > It's interesting, I was reading some prophecies from the 8th century > > > regarding when non-dual teaching would start coming to the cities of > > > the west and they describe this very phenomenon and what will happen > > > very precisely. One of the comments is 'if it were so easy to reach > > > perfect Buddhahood, the ocean of samsara would already have been > > > drained long ago.' > > > > > > "Masters of old lashed out at those who claimed to be > > > enlightened yet refused to be tested, calling them > > > "earthworms living in the slime of self-validated > > > satori"." > > > -Philip Kapleau Roshi > > > > > > How many were tested by their teachers? would be my > > > question--but I already know the answer. > > > > And, it seems, those not tested self-proclaimed ones then go on to > > proclaim others as "Brahman" or whatever. > > Oh yes. And they'll attack you for questioning or mentioning certain > blind spots. > > > > > And not particularly open to questioning about their statements, by > > "peers". That is another type of testing, albeit a lower level, with > > quesions such as -- is the experience parallel to that of others, are > > there logical inconsistencies being presented, and are claimed > > charactristics of a claimed state manifest in the claimer? > > Yes, yes, yes! > > > > > Questioners are at times cast as "snakes" or as being jealous of not > > having any experience, etc. It seems that if the experience is true, > > and the interpretation of it is strong, any and all questions would be > > welcome. Answering questions can be a catalyst deeper understanding, > > to bring light to unexplored perspectives and nuances. > > Yepper. > The only reply I have for both of you, is, 'argue for your limitations, and they are yours'. There is simply *no way* to justify the steps or signs of Enlightenment through the lens of the small self ego, something which you both persist in doing. Ain't never going to happen, boys.
Having said that, anyone claiming Enlightenment when such is not the case for them, is imo pathetic. The state is its own reward regardless what we may say or do. To fake such a thing is laughable and sad. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
