--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > > > > > On Apr 17, 2006, at 12:01 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > > <snip> > > > > > > There's no mention of correlation between EEG changes and > > > > > > enlightenment in any of the research that Vaj mentions, > > whereas > > > > > > that's one of the big areas of study for EEG and brain > > imaging > > > at > > > > > > MUM currently. > > > > > > > > > > The way I would show the same EEG pattern if I wanted to > > > > > duplicate "witnessing" on the EEG is to do ishta meditation > > > > > with a mantra (what Tibetans call yidam practice). It > > > > > duplicates the same EEG signature as TMers doing ishta mantra. > > > > > Very easy to do. > > > > > > > > But you'd be meditating, right? > > > > > > > > I think Lawson's talking about in activity. > > > > > > Both. The description of meditation in the samatha pdf file starts > > > off sounding like TM and then morphs into something else, or so it > > > seems. Any technique that inspires that kind of first-hand > > > description definitely isn't TM, though without direct comparisons > > > of EEG and other physiological parameters, we can't be sure if the > > > distinctions have any pragmatic effect on what is actually going on > > > in the brain. > > > > Right. My point was that Vaj is claiming he can emulate > > the TM EEG signature *during meditation*, but even if he > > can, that wouldn't necessarily mean he could also > > emulate it *during activity*. > > > > While "witnessing" certainly can occur during TM, the > > bread-and-butter aspect is when it occurs in activity. > > > > > Also, Ken Wilber's cute little EEG demo shows nothing in and of > > > itself. Vaj appears to be basing his claims on Wilber's demo or > > > something that he has done himself with similar apparatus. > > > > Well, it shows he has some control over whatever it is > > the machine is measuring, which is moderately impressive > > in and of itself. But it doesn't get us anywhere unless > > we have a better idea of what it's measuring. > > > > > Judy, > Wilber talks extensively about his experience of witnessing. From > his writings it's pretty clear he has the experience.
Plenty of people mistake depersonalization due to stress for witnessing, even though the EEG traces are completely different. Just because someone describes an internal state the same way, doesn't mean its really the same state. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
