--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002"
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > > Maharishi has always claimed that Jyotish is a science and that
> > > therefore a computer would be the best practitioner.
> > >
> > > To my eyes the biggest pointer to it being a huge load of
> > > Anthropomorphism is the fact that all of the planets beyond the
> > > orbit of saturn are missing from the jyotish calculations. Do they
> > > not have an effect?

As someone touched on, M. holds that jyotish is not about effects
casued from a distance (external planets) but rather are like a cosmic
clock that correspond to internal clocks -- presumably governing the
fructification of various vasanas.

>or is it because they are not visible to the
> > > naked eye and consequently the ancients couldn't have known about
> > > them?

Thus the cosmic clock system is not dependent of outer planets, nor
billions of other things, to tell what "time" it is.

> Charts don't say anything, they need to be interpreted, and the common
> experience is that 10 jyotishes will give 10 different interpretations

That is a common experience today, though not to the extreme you
imply. Most jyotishees will generally agree on what a particular
grahaplacement means. Where greater differences appear is determining
and interpreting the net result of a 100 + various influences taken

> People who believe in astrology always point to famous peoples' charts
> and find something in it that corresponds to the famous quality of
> stupidity or beauty or whatever in that person.  Astrology is a
> sufficiently complex system that you can always find something in a
> chart that corresponds to some quality in a person, and if you're a TB
> then your psychology will conveniently ignore all the other aspects of
> the chart that contradict your conclusion, .... -- though it's
> a complex enough system that you can always explain it away somehow.
> Anyway, keep waiting for that scientific proof of jyotish - that's an
> even longer wait than for the pundits.

That is not a characteristic unique to jyotish or jyotish believers,
its a broad characteristic common to all bad science practiced by
people who are clueless about statistical evidence.

It is a weak and nearly menningless finding, in jyotish or any
research, to say Y occurs when X happens. "The S&P 500 rises on days
that the Sun rises" meets the preceeding criteria. Its true, yet

What is of interest are statements such as  "Y occurs when X happens,
AND Y does NOT occur when X happens. (And verified by appropriate
statistical tests that the effects found would not usually occur if
the "cause"   or "dose" or "X" did not happen. "Not usually" means
itss better than 20 to one odds).

> PS -- A long time ago I did a fairly vigorous statistical look at
> jyotish application for investing and found no objective basis

I would guess you looked at a few jyotish positions, based on jyotish
basics, found in any introductory jyotish book. And these few jyotish
positions you looked at are were only a handful of 100's of possible
combinations and effects. And the analysis did not examine at all
virtually 1000's of effects(from combinations of effects brough to
light by advanced methods (e.g., various dasha systems, etc). If so,
your research, while probably of merit, was hardly exhaustive -- and
leaves open the door 1000x + well structured research projects, some
ofwhich may find some useful correlations in some areas of life.

My guess is that if some statistically valid predictions are made by
jyotish, it will come about from "reinterpreting" and calibrating
what ancient texts say regarding "results" of a particular jyotish
position, in terms of modern life. Gaining many wives, many cows, and
comfortable beds may mean something quite unique in modern life, and
distinct from what it referred to in life 5000 years ago -- though the
results may be in similar areas of life.

This will come from a lot of exploratory research. For example, if a
certain position calls for increased wealth, then look at 100
different wealth modern paramters (income, total assests, purchasing
power, etc) for 1000 + subjects and see if some correlate with the
existance, and lack thereof, of the noted jyotish position that is
said to promote wealth.

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