--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Me: I was telling you that I had already done what you suggested and > they do line up.
You had reduced the black-and-white chart to the size of the blue chart, then superimposed them (using different colors for each), and they match up perfectly? Could you put that graphic up on your site, please? I blew up the blue one so I could read the numbers > on the side. The resolution on the blue one is worse because of how > they compressed that graphic. You can lose pixels. It could have > been scanned poorly or compressed poorly being after scanned. > Photoshopping something and putting it on the Web takes me less time > than writing a post. I have advanced geek powers. Yeah, that doesn't answer my questions, though. It doesn't look at all to me as though the differences between the two charts could be a function of lost pixels in the blue one. They're too extensive. It would take a whole lot of dropped pixels to wipe out that big bump at the very top of the chart. And there are some distinct bumps in the blue chart that don't show up in the bigger one. > Judy: My point on the issue of deception--which you haven't > addressed at all--is that *if* it was deceptive, it's > entirely irrelevant from a marketing point of view, > because nobody's going to decide to take the TM-Sidhis > on the mistaken belief that high EEG coherence has > been measured during actual hopping, as opposed to > right before hopping. > > Me: We have already ruled out the theory about it being before > hopping. How have we ruled that out? By "before hopping," I mean during a given Yogic Flying session, not before people started to hop at all. > It is a 10 minute period of coherence claimed. And the chart from the TM site (the one on the left) shows coherence rising steeply before liftoff, then falling off immediately after liftoff. > Deception in > marketing pieces is not irrelevant to me. It is part of the proof > machine that builds a case on the value of the practice to people in > the movement. But Curtis, it *is* irrelevant in terms of both the point of the research (which is that the Yogic Flying technique produces high EEG coherence, irrespective of when exactly it happens during the practice), and irrelevant for any marketing purpose (since nobody's going to take the TM-Sidhis course simply because they believe, incorrectly, that coherence has been measured during hopping, as opposed to right before hopping). It's a distinction without a difference. > It should matter to people who believe that the > practice has value because it weakens their case in an obvious > manor. I'd just as soon they were scrupulously accurate in every last little tiny detail, but to elevate this one as you and others have into some monstrous deception is absurd. There are far more legitimate beefs with other TMO doings. > One of the reasons that it interested me is because this kind of > proof was in our faces all the time at MIU. We lived and breathed > this stuff and it added a lot of credibility to what we were doing > in my mind. Leaning how flawed it was sucked for me. Why don't you pick a couple of examples that genuinely *mattered* to complain about, examples of deception you know about firsthand that actually resulted in people doing things--taking courses, whatever--that they wouldn't otherwise have done? When you harp on something as trivial as this chart, you trigger the suspicion that it's the *worst* you can come up with. > As I said before, I think the whole chart was fabricated > when MMY asked someone to put the highest coherence next > to flying because he "knew" this was true. And as I said before, the fact that MMY asked for "the highest coherence" indicates that there *was* some significantly high coherence measured during Yogic Flying (if not during hopping). If brain- wave coherence has any value, it'll have value no matter when it occurs during the practice, or when it can be *measured* during the practice. (I don't know about you, but my experience of the flying sutra is that when I use it, my mind feels as though it becomes extremely clear, and this sense of clarity continues right through hopping. If that clarity I feel before hopping is EEG coherence, then I'm damned if it isn't there during hopping as well.) I don't think you have the slightest basis for suspicion, given your account of what MMY said, that the whole coherence thing was made up from scratch. If it were, then he'd have said, "Make up something that looks like high coherence and create a chart that says it's happening during flying." What you remember him saying argues that the EEG coherence data was legitimate, just not put in precisely the right place. (And we don't even know that it wasn't in the right place, since we have no way of ruling out O-J's explanation about eliminating the artifacts.) > It is not something to tar the movement with. They have done this > all to themselves. Misusing science to build credibility in TM is > an important point to me. Says Curtis, using it to tar the movement. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
