Esentially, it comes down to this. Claims made require testing. > MMY's claims with regard to "yogic flying" have been found seriously > wanting and those desiring to believe those claims in the face of no > supporting evidence are deluding themselves. The TMO is real good > about advancing delusion. > > Jyotish falls into that area as well. And while we're at it, let's > test yagyas too! I think I know what the results will show. >
Good points. I think MMY has had his day. The early tests on meditation were really interesting and probably encouraged a lot of interest in mind-body studies outside the movement. But all the silly stuff that came later has had plenty of time to pass muster and it has not. The Yagya and Joitish stuff are usually put in a non-falsifiable form. I know some people who have spent thousands on Yagyas. Guess who they blame when they don't work? Themselves! This stuff has torn the movement apart as people grow older and get sick of the wild claims and never-ending money schemes. It still is facinating isn't it? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I apologize for not reading the earlier posts where you quoted > extensively from Harris. You're right about him. He reflects my > thinking as well. > > Esentially, it comes down to this. Claims made require testing. > MMY's claims with regard to "yogic flying" have been found seriously > wanting and those desiring to believe those claims in the face of no > supporting evidence are deluding themselves. The TMO is real good > about advancing delusion. > > Jyotish falls into that area as well. And while we're at it, let's > test yagyas too! I think I know what the results will show. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > Yes that was right out of Sam Harris' perspective! He is one of my > > favorite thinkers. I must add that I was a full believer in all > > things TM at one time so my critique of this kind of belief is > also a > > critique of my own former beliefs. Taking on and then shedding the > > beliefs of TM was an important experience for me. I am fascinated > by > > people with more spiritual beliefs than I myself hold. This > Yahoo > > group seems especially tolerant of different views and the rights > of > > people expressing them. I agree with your point that blending > crazy > > beliefs and explosives takes the whole discussion out of the > > theoretical and into the world of "holy shit! > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <bikemaster@> wrote: > > > > > > Very well said. > > > > > > Have you read Sam Harris' book, "End of Faith," or something > like > > > that? He says pretty much the same thing. > > > > > > And, normally, I don't care if people want to belief > preposterous > > > stuff, but lately with people strapping on bombs and blowing > > > themselves up in coffee houses because they believe that 70 > virgins > > > will greet them in paradise, it hits a lot closer to home. > > > > > > And that's much worse than a bunch of lemmings who have the > delusion > > > that people can fly, but certainly cut from the same non- > critical > > > thinking cloth. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The fact that you are even discussing the impossibility of > flying > > > is > > > > the result of a very successful marketing campaign isn't it? > > > Based on > > > > people hopping around, MMY asserted that people would soon > fly. > > > Now, > > > > so many years later, for a dwindling group, the hope remains. > > > This is > > > > one of the most fascinating lenses to view people's beliefs. > The > > > > question for me is "how could otherwise bright people believe > > > > something so patently absurd?" The answer to that question > goes > > > right > > > > to the heart of how humans develop beliefs. It goes to the > heart > > > of > > > > what makes us human, and may be the thing that ends up > destroying > > > us. > > > > > > > > Right now different groups in the Middle East believe that God > gave > > > > them a piece of land. Based on that belief they are killing > each > > > > other. How can people believe that hopping is the first stage > of > > > > flying, or that God gave their group a piece of land? We all > have > > > to > > > > find our own answers don't we? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <bikemaster@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Here's the point: > > > > > > > > > > Photographs aside, a critical thinker will ask if there is > any > > > > > evidence that anyone has ever levitated. There is not. > > > > > > > > > > No one is going to levitate either, I'm asserting. > > > > > > > > > > It's all more BS from the TMO. Those who believe that > levitation > > > is > > > > > happening or will happen are probably those who accept > > > everything > > > > > that "MMY says," without any critical examination. I, for > one, > > > think > > > > > it's all crap ... VooDoo TM, was was referenced earlier. > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > <shempmcgurk@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > <jstein@> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > <shempmcgurk@> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > <jstein@> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > > <shempmcgurk@> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > > > > <jstein@> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > > > > <shempmcgurk@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > > new.morning > > > > > > > > > <no_reply@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > > > > > > > <jstein@> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just for the record, since about 1984, > the > > > TMO > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been quite clear that actual flying has > not > > > yet > > > > > been > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > achieved, and that all practitioners are > > > doing is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hopping. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but 1977-1983 were some crazy, mixed- > up, > > > wild- > > > > > > ass > > > > > > > > > > > years. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...add dishonesty to the mix. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Publishing photos of flyers in the uppermost > > > apex of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > hopping parabola is, intentially, deceitful > and > > > > > that's > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly what the TMO did. There's 100+ > possible > > > > > points > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > the hopping parabola...gee, why pick the one > at > > > the > > > > > > apex > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > publicize? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, Shemp, you need to give this one just a > > > > > > > > > > > > *teeeeeensy* bit more thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enlighten me, Judy, why it was NOT dishonest > > > publicizing > > > > > > > > > > > photographs of flyers in the apex of the hopping > > > > > parabola... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think it through, Shemp. Start by explaining the > > > > > > > > > > "deception" involved: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. What would someone assume *incorrectly* if they > saw > > > > > > > > > > a photo taken at the apex of the parabola rather > than > > > > > > > > > > at a lower point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gee, I dunno, Judy, that the person was LEVITATING > and > > > > > FLOATING > > > > > > > > > in the air maybe????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BZZZZT. Why would they NOT think that if the photo > > > > > > > > were taken at a lower point of the parabola? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try again, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. What would their *correct* assumption be if the > hop > > > > > > > > > > were shown at a lower point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Think it through, Judy, and ask yourself who should > be > > > doing > > > > > > > > > the assuming: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Non sequitur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those promoting and distributing photos of alleged > > > > > > > > > levitation....or...those reading their papers over > their > > > > > > > > > morning coffee. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think that the TMO acted morally and honestly > > > back in > > > > > > > > > the '70s when they released those photos? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll address that once you've addressed the "point > > > > > > > > on the parabola" issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every time you can't answer a question or you are > befuddled, > > > you > > > > > > > always do the same thing: you say "I'll answer that once > > > you've > > > > > > > addressed my question". > > > > > > > > > > > > Translation: Shemp realizes his bit about the point > > > > > > on the parabola was REEEEEELY dumb. He can't admit > > > > > > that, of course, so he tries to change the subject. > > > > > > That doesn't work, so now he thinks he'll try > > > > > > projecting *his* befuddlement and inability to answer > > > > > > *my* questions onto *me*. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess he thinks at least some folks here are dumb > > > > > > enough to fall for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > do me a favor: ignore my posts and don't comment on them > > > > > anymore, > > > > > > > please. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, but I'll continue to comment exactly as I see fit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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