--- In [email protected], new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power > over others, relative to their population, will do so.
It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power by a majority. "Tyranny of the majority" is also "globbing onto more power" and is one that can run roughshod over minorities. You huffily proclaimed that because of it's absense of pure one-man- one-vote, the U.S. is a "democratic back water". I pointed out to you that democracy is more than just one-man-one-vote and concessions to this don't necessarily mean an abandonment of democracy nor because democratic principles are ignored. Protection of the weak and minorities is hardly "darkness and corruption". No huge insight > there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is > more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some > peoples vote count 10x, sometimes 100x of others. > > Let Canadians do what they will. In the US, I advocate one-person one > vote. And the abolishment of hugely distortianal systems like the > electoral college which not only distorts the will of the popular vote > (Gore 2000) but makes all but a handful states mere observers, not > participants in national elections. I lived in California most of my > life. In memory, few presidential candidates ever visited or spent > energy in California. What kind of system is that where the most > populous state, the largest state economy, and some would venture the > most creative, innovation and research-focussed state, is basically > excluded from presidential systems. > > Blame the election on Iowans! :) > > > --- In [email protected], "shempmcgurk" <shempmcgurk@> > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], new.morning <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the > > > > > > Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders > > > > > > who don't care whether these people live or die and who > > > > > > design and implement their global strategies accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > Well, no, not "Americans as a whole." > > > > > > > > > > More than 51 million Americans voted *against* > > > > > George Bush in 2000; more than 59 million voted > > > > > against him in 2004. > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately only around 60 percent of those > > > > > eligible to vote actually voted in 2004, so we > > > > > don't know how the rest felt. But we *do* know > > > > > that less than a third of voters actually pulled > > > > > the lever for Bush. > > > > > > > > We DO know how those who didn't vote felt. > > > > > > > > They didn't care enough even to vote. > > > > > > > > Therefore in effect they voted. > > > > > > > > Bush is President because the American people > > > > caused him to be there, via comission or omission. > > > > > > > > > Your "theory" appears to presume the US is a pure democracy -- one > > > person, one vote. While that is the standard throughout much of the > > > civilized world > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, really? > > > > Tell us where this is a standard, please. > > > > Often, the "one-man-one-vote" standard is purposely NOT built into a > > country's democratic system. > > > > For example, where you have minorities, the one-man-one-vote > > principal can wipe out their individual and minority rights and, > > often, a country's constitution will provide protections for them. > > In Canada where I'm from, the constitution provided certain > > minorities guaranteed minimum seats in pariament, despite their > > dwindling numbers or their percentage of the population. > > > > The most blatant example of that is the tiny Island of Prince Edward > > Island with a population of about 150,000. The Canadian > > constitution guarantees them 4 seats in the federal parliament > > whereas if it were done on the basis of one-man-one-vote they'd get > > less than one. > > > > And one of the big complaints by provinces such as Alberta is that > > the one-man-one-vote principle is grossly unfair to them in ther > > federal parliament. Alberta didn't exist when Canada and its > > constitution were created in 1867. Today, relative to Ontario and > > Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have little population and have no hope of > > being a majority in parliament. Capture the votes of just Ontario > > and some of Quebec and the other 8 provinces can be ignored. And > > that's why separation is not just a Quebec phenomenon but an Alberta > > one as well. > > > > Indeed, Alberta has been crying for decades for precisely the sort > > of thing that you rail against below: the distortion of and > > antithesis of one-man-one-vote...that is, a Senate with equal > > provincial representation in a bicameral legislature. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the US is a democratic back water. > > > > > > It remains a backwater of darkness and corruption due to i) the > > > electoral college (Gore won in 2000 -- the was the true reflection > > of > > > US will), ii) a bi-cameral system of legislature where one house is > > > the antithesis of one persone, one vote, and the other is so > > rigged > > > (jerrymandering) that only 10% or so of races are actually > > competitive > > > -- that is -- democratic. The rest of the races are simple > > > power-maintnenace by entrenched "rulers". Further, out-of-state > > > contribution to local races, corrupt lobbying rules and campaign > > > finance, and no centralized national election rules -- allowing > > local > > > corruption (Ohio, Florida, Kathleen Smith, paperless trail voting > > > machines) all are choking the true will of the people by entrenched > > > powers. > > > > > > With so many distortions in in ts so-called democracy, democracy in > > > the US is a sick patient in intensive care. Hardly vibrant and > > > reflective of the will of the people. The US currently is more than > > > than not, a banana republic of entrenched powers sustaining their > > > power. Its not a wonder corrupt low-vibe policies are developed and > > > implemented. > > > > > > How to break the black-shroud of darkeness choking american > > democracy? > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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