--- In [email protected], bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > more on the Pope's hypocrisy and stupidity: > > http://www.slate.com/id/2149863/nav/tap1/
Hitchens is not exactly the most thoughtful commentator on matters of religion (nor of much of anything else, for that matter). There's a fascinating, beautifully written, and *exceptionally* thoughtful "diary" on this controversy on the DailyKos blog. It's generally pro-pope, but it presents a perspective I haven't seen anywhere else. Readers' comments on the post, representing a wide range of other perspectives, are likewise amazingly thoughtful, some of the most insightful and knowledgeable I've ever seen on any blog, anywhere. Here's an excerpt from the diary: ------ Manuel II spoke from the prejudices of his time and from the limitations of his understanding when, in conversation with his Muslim companion, he said "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached". In quoting him, the Pope knew full well that this was a deeply flawed conversation; he characterized Manuel's speech as "startlingly brusque," which is just diplomacy-speak for "incredibly rude." What is crucial to understand is that the Pope chose this conversation not because of Manuel's flawed and bigoted view of Islam, but precisely because --however flawed -- it was a conversation. The Pope chose to comment on an ancient conversation between West and East precisely because the modern West, in his estimation, *has lost the ability even to carry on this kind of conversation*. The Cardinal Ratzinger who struggled mightily to help the Catholic Church come to terms with its violent past in 2000, now six years later wants to help the West talk about violence again. And he finds that it is not the Muslims who cannot talk about it, *but contemporary Western society* that cannot talk about it. Why not? Because contemporary Western society cannot do what Muslim societies are able to do; contemporary Western culture cannot reconcile *reason* with *faith*. The Pope's speech at Regensberg was an impassioned plea to the West to recover the union of reason and faith so as to be able to talk to cultures --such as Islam -- that unite reason with faith. Far from criticizing Muslims, at Regensberg Pope Benedict was aligning himself with them.... What is really unfortunate isn't that Pope Benedict reached back to a flawed and bigoted 12th century conversation in order to have a context for speaking about religious violence today. What is unfortunate is that he *had* to. For centuries, the West refused to talk to Islam at all, because we didn't share the same faith. Now, we've lost even the ability to talk to Islam, and we've lost that ability because we don't share a belief in faith itself -- a belief that is central to Islamic culture. Unless we reclaim the ability to talk about faith without sneering, we will insult Muslims at the very core of their culture, at the very core of their existence. In that state of insult, there can be no peace. What Pope Benedict is saying, is this: It is the insistence that faith has no part in a modern and rational world, that is the hobgoblin of little minds. [emphases in original] ---- Sample excerpts from the comments: ----- If he wants to create an open conversation, he runs up against a basic principle: A store cannot sell what it does not stock. ----- The problem with the Pope's Regensburg lecture is that it laid out three intellectual traditions as unchanging, undifferentiated essences and then contrasted them with one another, to the edification of his own position. There aren't any essences. It is always better to put forward the virtues of your tradition on their own, without attempting invidious comparisons with, and put-downs, of others. If Christianity is superior, that can be perceived without it being necessary to brand Islam inferior. ----- One of the commenters cites a post on the same subject on another blog, that of Middle East expert Juan Cole, who takes an anti-pope position. That post and its comments are penetrating as well. The post references an earlier post by Cole, which one should probably read first, along with its comments. I'm working my way through all this material with my mouth sort of hanging open at the erudition and insight of most of the folks involved. It's really high-level stuff, an education on Islam and Catholicism and the relationship of reason and faith and science. Another post on Cole's blog provides URLs for still other posts of his, a series on "Peace and Love in the Koran," each one of which analyzes a particular verse. Anybody who has any interest in this current controversy, or Catholicism and Islam in general, will find a great deal to chew on in this material. Here are the URLs. DailyKos diary: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/9/18/85254/3270 (click at the bottom to view the comments) Posts from Juan Cole's blog: http://www.juancole.com/2006/09/pope-gets-it-wrong-on-islam- pope.html http://tinyurl.com/gubeg http://www.juancole.com/2006/09/pope-manuel-iis-views-of-muhammad- are.html http://tinyurl.com/pk9gh Peace and Love in the Koran: http://www.juancole.com/2006/03/peace-and-love-in-quran-list-of.html http://tinyurl.com/qgjuc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! 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