--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > trying to follow new.mornings posting inspirations, i've started > a new thread instead of intjecting this into the old one :)
Good plan. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" > > <snip> > > > Any meditation technique that relies on a object > > > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by > > > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh > > > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* > > > > Of course, it's never been established that what he > > said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such > > thing. > > I'm not sure exactly what the Estes Park quote is, but > Maharishi was quite clear that there is some "doing" > in the thinking/picking up of the mantra and that, yes, > this is a contradictory to the mantra just appearing > on its own. That's why the the instruction to think or > pick up the mantra is qualified by saying "effortlessy" > or "as effortessly as a thought comes". Of course one > is thinking and of course thinking is doing. It may be > an effortless doing, but it's a doing. > > While it may not be fair to dismiss TM as being a > technique of "effort" on account of that, vaj is, IMO, > not incorrect in calling it "subtle effort" becaue of > that doing. To misunderstand this puts one in the > position of a meditator I once encountered who asked > "What happens if you sit there for the entire 20 > minutes and the mantra doesn't come?" Duh. The thing is, you're speaking to a person who (as far as I can tell) really *lives* in "Duh-land." She probably *believes* that if she sat there for 20 minutes and the mantra doesn't "come" that she's actually meditating. :-) The thing is, some people -- fearful types -- got so terrorized by the TM dogma that "effort is bad" that now they can't admit that there is some subtle effort involved with TM, EVEN WHEN MAHARISHI SAY IT. They hear him saying it and they feel that they have to come up with amazingly outlandish "explanations" for what he "really" meant, and how he couldn't *possibly* have been suggesting that TM involves some effort or that effort is good. In other words, for these people the dogma of "effortlessness" has become more important than the obvious reality of subtle effort. OF COURSE there is some subtle effort in TM. But don't tell the "Duh" folks here (Sparaig and Judy), because it's MUCH more fun watching them jump through hoops trying to tell everyone that Maharishi didn't really mean what he said, and that they know better. :-) :-) :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
