--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > trying to follow new.mornings posting inspirations, i've started > > a new thread instead of intjecting this into the old one :) > > Good plan. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "vajradhatu108" > > > > <snip> > > > > Any meditation technique that relies on a object > > > > of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by > > > > it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh > > > > acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* > > > > > > Of course, it's never been established that what he > > > said at Estes Park ever "acknowledged" any such > > > thing. > > > > I'm not sure exactly what the Estes Park quote is, but > > Maharishi was quite clear that there is some "doing" > > in the thinking/picking up of the mantra and that, yes, > > this is a contradictory to the mantra just appearing > > on its own. That's why the the instruction to think or > > pick up the mantra is qualified by saying "effortlessy" > > or "as effortessly as a thought comes". Of course one > > is thinking and of course thinking is doing. It may be > > an effortless doing, but it's a doing. > > > > While it may not be fair to dismiss TM as being a > > technique of "effort" on account of that, vaj is, IMO, > > not incorrect in calling it "subtle effort" becaue of > > that doing. To misunderstand this puts one in the > > position of a meditator I once encountered who asked > > "What happens if you sit there for the entire 20 > > minutes and the mantra doesn't come?" Duh. > > The thing is, you're speaking to a person who (as > far as I can tell) really *lives* in "Duh-land." > She probably *believes* that if she sat there for > 20 minutes and the mantra doesn't "come" that she's > actually meditating. :-) >
What mantra? What level of thought? During meditation, I've gone months--perhaps even years--without remembering how to say my mantra out loud, and then one day, BAM, there it is, in all it's primitive glory--but that's exactly how its supposed to be, also. > The thing is, some people -- fearful types -- got > so terrorized by the TM dogma that "effort is bad" > that now they can't admit that there is some subtle > effort involved with TM, EVEN WHEN MAHARISHI > SAY IT. They hear him saying it and they feel > that they have to come up with amazingly outlandish > "explanations" for what he "really" meant, and how > he couldn't *possibly* have been suggesting that > TM involves some effort or that effort is good. > > In other words, for these people the dogma of > "effortlessness" has become more important than > the obvious reality of subtle effort. So we don't know our own minds? ' > > OF COURSE there is some subtle effort in TM. But > don't tell the "Duh" folks here (Sparaig and Judy), > because it's MUCH more fun watching them jump > through hoops trying to tell everyone that Maharishi > didn't really mean what he said, and that they know > better. :-) :-) :-) > "Of course," there's some subtle effort: if there wasn't, you couldn't call it unqiue. And you desperately need it not to be unqiue. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
