--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter > <drpetersutphen@> wrote: > > > > > > People make a mistake when they view advaitin > > > teachings as presenting conceptual models of > > > Realization for a waking state intellect. For > the > > > waking state intellect they are obviously > lacking as > > > you and others have pointed out. It doesn't mean > what > > > they say is false or wrong, its just that they > are > > > meant to be applied in two ways: as a tool for > > > transcendence or as a conceptual understanding > of a > > > direct experience that you are having. Contrast > this > > > with MMY's teaching which presents a conceptual > model > > > of Realization for a waking state intellect. The > > > waking state mind has something to chew on... > > > > I would add, "and to cling to, as a mechanism for > > keeping the actual experience of realization > away..." > > But in MMY's model, CC, at least, is inevitable. It > is merely a product of a transition in how > the brain works.
I don't see CC as a product of brain functioning. Brain functioning is reflected in the functioning of mind and vice versa. Consciousness realizing its own unlocalized nature will profoundly effect brain functioning but not the other way around. > In MMY's model, all the > intellectual theory is meant to do is provide a > comfortable interpretation of this transition to > alleviate the discomfort that might arise > from intellectual confusion. MMY's model is great for a waking state understanding of Realization. After Realization the knowledge to understand what is happening is there, but it is not conceptualized as it was in waking state prior to Realization. Many, if not all, of the waking state assumptions regarding Realization and many other things are radically alter after Realization. There is not a continuum of "S/self" from waking state into CC. That is an assumption of the waking state intellect because it doesn't have a friggin' clue what will happen in Realization. How can it? It only knows waking state. There is a radical change in conceptual understanding of Realization from waking state to the intellect functioning in Realization. Realization can not be conceived in waking state, but the waking state intellect doesn't know that. > > > > > > ...as it > > > were, and functions as a belief system to > motivate the > > > seeker to continue doing sadhana. The real value > is in > > > the sadhana, day in and day out, doing the > program, > > > not in the conceptual model. But once > Realization > > > occurs, the wakingstate model doesn't fit > anymore. It > > > is recognized as a "useful fiction" for waking > state > > > sadhana. Only in Realization do the advaitin > teachings > > > make any conceptual sense. Prior to Realization > they > > > appear to deny the rather clear experience of > the > > > space-time reality of waking state. > > > > Well said. > > > > In general, those who don't "get" the advaita > > approach have not had the direct experience of > > realization. For those who have, they make sense. > > > > You're acquainted with numerous people who have had > the direct experience of > realization, and are able to generalize this way > based on experience, or are you speaking > of what your own tradition says, or are you merely > making things up because it fits with > your own expectations? > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
