--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Dec 27, 2006, at 11:48 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], Peter <drpetersutphen@> > > wrote: > >> > >> You are making assumptions out of waking state. In > >> realization there is nobody to go anyplace. > > > > Not to argue but to pose a question, what if one > > has reached a basic state of realization (MMY's CC) > > but there is still a long way for him/her to go to > > attain a full state of realization. In other words, > > there are still a lot of higher states of conscious- > > ness still to be experienced. If such a person kicks > > the bucket before experiencing them, are those > > experiences denied them or do they get another shot? > > > > This was actually asked of Maharishi a few times > > in my presence, and he seemed to believe that it > > was all over but the shoutin'. No more incarnation, > > no more "shots." All I'm suggesting is that other > > spiritual traditions don't necessarily see it that > > way. They tend to believe that if there are states > > still to be evolved *into*, there is still something > > left to evolve. In other words, only at the theoretical > > "end point" of evolution is there "nobody to go > > anyplace." Before that, there is the subjective feeling > > that "nobody is at home," but if full realization has not > > been attained on a permanent basis, someone still is. >
MMY doesn't claim CC leads to heaven, so this point doesn't make sense (not saying your conclusion is wrong, but only that you haven't brought any "reason" to your argument (as usual...)). > CC will lead to a heavenly dimension, but that state is impermanent. > Once the karma is exhausted, one falls back on the wheel, like a > arrow which reaches it's apex and falls again to earth: > > "A Relative teachings and moralist practices > may help beings of certain capacities > > to lead a less conflictive existence. > > However, an exaggerated emphasis on them > > may lead us to believe that rules and precepts are absolute > > and that their observance is ultimately important, > > thus increasing the delusory valuation that is the cause > of duhkha[i] > > and making us more intolerant toward others. > > > > Whatever causes us to rise to heaven > > later on will be the cause of our falling into hell. > > As stated by Yung-chia Hsüan-chüeh:[ii] > > > > "Giving (dana) practiced with an aim > > may result in the grace of being reborn in heaven. > > This, however, is like shooting an arrow upwards: > > when the strength propelling the arrow is exhausted > > it will return to the ground > > and this will be a source of adverse karma > > for times to come." > > > > By taking the way of heaven > > we fall deep into hell. > > > > In a succession or toothaches and ice-creams > > which does the child want to have first? > > It is better to step down from the wheel > > that carries us up to heaven and then takes us down to > hell. > > > > Yet the worst with moralism > > is that it may be used by "demonic" pseudomasters > > as a pretext for murdering truly Enlightened Masters. > > In the name of purity, the greatest possible fault is > committed." > > > [i]. Duhkha: dissatisfaction, lack of plenitude, missing the point, > recurrent suffering. This is how the Hinayana Schools characterize > samsara. > > [ii]. See Yoka Daishi (Yung-chia Hsüan-chüeh)/Taisen Deshimaru (1981). > > > > --THE MEANING OF SELF-LIBERATION > > AND THE LOOPY LOOPS FROM > THE SOURCE OF DANGER IS FEAR > > By > > Elías Capriles > > Article Originally Published in the > > International Journal of Transpersonal Studies, vol 20, 2001 (pp. 53-66) >
