---Thanks, yes; the two identities are conceptual. One can talk about "The Self", meaning or referring to one of the two aspects of Brahman that MMY refers to; the other identity being relative existence "in itself". Of course, as MMY points out, the two are One; but we can TALK about pure Consciousness "In Itself" as did Aristotle; without even bringing up relative considerations, such as: By way of a question, if you are meditating, is it OK to have rats nibble on your toes and live in freezing temperatures, OR, would you rather live in a relative paradise. Relative matters such as good health, clean environment, etc; are matters of importance among the 200 percent Gurus, but of no special importance among the 100 percenters. The latter believe that through Enlightenment, one can ultimately be TAKEN AWAY from suffering, i.e. separated out; whereas the 200 percenters wish to become Enlightened AND at the same time live in a relative Paradise. Also, the 100 percenters are more likely to chose option #1 as opposed to #3, as an ultimate goal (discused in a previous string): After Enlightenment, one can 1. Dissolve like a drop in the ocean of Being, with no finite, relative existence. 2. Choose not to make a choice, or 3. Live somewhere, in some realm, with a relative body perhaps for the purpose of helping others.
In [email protected], Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't fully undersdtand your post. What are the two > identities that you are talking about? > > --- qntmpkt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --The discussion below separates the "They" from > > relative experience, > > something the Dalai Lama never does. From a > > Buddhist perspective, > > there's just "existence". According to Buddhist > > teachings, > > Enlightenment awakens people to the Real nature of > > existence; but > > there's no philosophical separation between supposed > > "two" identities. > > Any such discussion is only from the viewpoint of > > cc. > > > > > > In [email protected], Peter > > <drpetersutphen@> wrote: > > > > > > No, it only appears to be nonsense due to lack of > > > experience with pure consciousness. Let me > > explain. > > > First of all, from a waking state perspective, > > that is > > > from a perspective wherein consciousness is bound > > by > > > the object of experiencing, the question makes > > sense. > > > In waking state there is a rather self-evident > > ego, a > > > "me" or "I" that appears to be present in all > > > experiencing. This "I" also seems to be surrounded > > by > > > a vast universe of relative experiences both > > > subjective and objective. The "I" is inside the > > > universe. So from this perspective questions like > > > "where does an enlightened person go when they > > drop > > > the body" appears to make sense because it assumes > > an > > > "I" in enlightenment as in waking state. In short, > > > what will this "I" experience when it is > > enlightened > > > and where will it be when it no longer is inside a > > > body. But enlightenment is the awakening to the > > > infinite value of Self. And if something is > > infinite > > > it is outside of relative measure; outside of all > > time > > > and space contraints. The Self of realization is > > not > > > localized. It is not inside the body, nor is it > > inside > > > the universe. It is nowhere from a relative > > > perspective; it doesn't exist as an "I" or "me." > > But > > > experience does continue, obviously, but now > > rather > > > than being an "I" inside of all the experiencing, > > all > > > experincing is "inside" pure consciousness. > > Everything > > > gets turned on its head. All experience is simply > > > something quite insignificant and not really > > > real...whatever that means! So I'm sure when a > > > realized person dies, the relative experincing > > will > > > change, but "they" don't go anywhere. How could > > they? > > > There is no localized self to come and go. > > > Consciousness always "is." Experiences come and > > go. > > > Death of the body is just another experience. > > > > > > --- hyperbolicgeometry <hyperbolicgeometry@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Peter > > > > <drpetersutphen@> > > > > wrote: > > > > >(below): typical Neo-Advaita nonsense. The > > > > discussion pertains to > > > > the body, in the relative sense. > > > > > You are making assumptions out of waking > > state. In > > > > > realization there is nobody to go anyplace. > > > > > > > > > > --- Jeff Fischer <jeffcandace@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When one has *awakened* where do they go > > when > > > > they > > > > > > drop the body? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > Or go to: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > > > protection around > > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Or go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com >
