--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "sparaig" <sparaig@> wrote: > > > > > > MMY came to this country BECAUSE India wasn't Vedic any more... > > > > For our edification, could you provide us with historical > > references for the Vedic times you speak of? > > Must be the Vedic times you were speaking of when > you asked, "So how's that reality fit into the 'Vedic > ideal,' eh?" > > You know, 'cause that's what Lawson was responding > to above. > > > You know the > > ones, the period referred to in a recent TMO Web page as, > > "...Vedic times, when life was lived in abundance, peace > > and bliss." > > > > As I remember the little literature I've read from > > supposedly "Vedic times," it's a record of war, petty > > grievances between the gods and demigods and pretty > > much constant pleading from the lowly humans down on > > planet Earth for these gods and demigods to take it > > easy on them. So I seem to have missed the historical > > records you are familiar with indicating that such > > times were indeed a period of "abundance, peace and > > bliss." > > I don't believe Lawson said anything about being > familiar with historical records indicating this, > did he? Or did you fantasize that he did? > > And if all you remember is a "record of war," > etc., as you say above, what did you mean when you > asked how plastic surgery in India fits into the > "Vedic ideal"? Where did you find this "Vedic > ideal" that is in such contrast to the tendency > of Indian movie stars to change their features > to become more Western? > > I mean, if there is no such ideal, as you appear > to be suggesting in this post, then your demand > to know how current Indian practice fits with > this nonexistent ideal in your previous post > would seem to have been disingenuous. Or perhaps > just inadvertently nonsensical.
Or, I could be suggesting that Lawson and most of the other TMers who throw around the term "Vedic times" or who talk about what ideal life will be like when Maharishi and his pundits bring "Vedic times" to the present don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. The ONLY thing they know about "Vedic times" is that Maharishi told them they were good. There- fore, they WERE good. They were times of (again, to quote TM movement PR) "abundance, peace and bliss." There was never any need to actually *research* what Vedic times were *really* about, because they already had the definitive word on the subject -- Maharishi told them they were good, periods of "abundance, peace and bliss," and so they WERE good, periods of "abundance, peace and bliss." I'm poking fun at True Believer Syndrome, Judy, as reflected in Lawson throwing around the term 'Vedic' while clearly having no earthly idea what it was in reality, only what he's been *told* it was by someone he trusts so completely that he never does any research on the subjects himself. You seem to be positioning yourself as someone who knows more than just the stuff *you* were told by Maharishi about "Vedic times." Perhaps you can explain to us how animal sacrifice is going to be reintroduced once Maharishi and the pundits succeed in bringing those "Vedic times" back to us in the 21st. century. Just to help you out, here are a few of the rituals we have to look forward to in this coming period of "abundance, peace and bliss:" Animal sacrifice is very clear in the Vedas as a part of the rituals. The Rig Veda has several very clear references to animal sacrifices. In a reference to the sacrifice of a goat it says (1.162.2) "The dappled goat goes straight to heaven, bleating to the place dear to Indra and to Pusan." In one of the hymns to the horse (1.162.9-11) it says, "What part of the steed's flesh the fly does not eat or is left sticking to the post or hatchet, or to the slayer's hands and nails adheres, among the Gods, too may all this be with thee. Food undigested steaming from his belly and any odor of raw flesh that remains, let the immolators set in order and dress the sacrifice with perfect cooking. What from thy body which with fire is roasted when thou art set upon the spit distills let not that lie on earth or grass neglected, but to the longing Gods let all be offered." As well, the non-vegetarian aspect is clear that when this horse was sacrificed, it was then distributed to those who "were eagerly waiting as the meat was tested with a trial fork and then distributed (Rig 1.162.12ff.)." The Yajur Veda contains many more references to animal sacrifices, clear and often repeated references to animal sacrifices, mainly in association with the full moon rite, the Soma sacrifice and its supplement. There is an entire section of the Yajur devoted to optional animal sacrifices (ii.1) The flesh of the victim was offered in part as a burnt offering, in part eaten by the priests (who were not vegetarians; cf. the statement by Keith in the Harvard Oriental Series, Vol 18, Motilal Banarsidas, Delhi, Arthur Berriadale Keith Vol I, p. cvii). Here are a few clear examples of animal sacrifices in the Yajur Veda (The Black Yajur, Vol I, Banarsidas, Delhi, A.B. Keith): "To the Asvins he sacrifices a dusky, to Sarasvati a ram, to Indra a bull" (Yajur 1.8.21.e) "He who hates us and whom we hate, here do I cut off his neckĀ " (Yajur 1.3.1.c) The latter one a reference to the symbolic and protecting nature of the animal sacrifice that the sacrificer receives. Sacrifice was done with several views. First there was simply the gift-offering. There is also a sense in which the sacrifice gives power or a way of spiritually carrying out something through the sacrifice such as the severing of the heads of enemies through the gods. Sacrifice is seen as a way of pleasing the gods and gaining their favor in contrast to those who do not sacrifice (e.g. Rig 1.110.7 "those who pour no offering forth"). In the Soma offering it is the priests offering the gods the juice that gives them pleasure and strength to win wealth and help from the gods for those who offer the Soma (cf. Rig 1.107 and 108). Sacrifice gains spiritual favor and ascendancy in divinity. The Ribhus gained immortality through their zealous sacrificing (Rig 1.110.4). Sacrifice was to enbue the sacrificer with power and wealth from the gods (Rig 1.111.2).
