--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've been giving a lot of thought to this discussion. I wrote > a bunch of things that I never posted. We are seeing Sam's > points so differently. I think you are reading in a lot of > emotion into Sam's position that is from you, not him.
Not to mention reading in a lot of *motives*, from the same source. Hmmm. Have we seen this before? > I also think you are missing Sam's whole point if you think > he doesn't understand the nuances of religious faith. I get the feeling that he understands them so well, and describes them so well, that he some- times generates a panic reaction from those he *has* understood, and whose beliefs he has described accurately. They are uncomfortable with having their beliefs described differ- ently than *they* would like them described. > My understanding of his point is that these differences are > not as important as people are making them. Once you > accept beliefs like "Jesus died for our sins" as a factual > statement you are already way over the justifiable line > in his view. Or when you accept "God exists" as a factual statement, or accept "my technique of meditation is the best" as a fact, or "the ME is a real phenomenon" as a fact. The issue is not with believing these things as *belief*, but with trying to promote them and act upon them as if they were fact. Every being who has attained realization has come to some kind of subjective level of comfort with the things that he or she *believes*. No problemo there. But not all of these beings have declared the things that they believe *fact*. As you say, Curtis, that's taking a step over a line that, in most other situations in life, is drawn to describe the difference between fantasy and reality. I get the feeling that Sullivan is more focused on the up side of belief, the carrot tied to the end of a stick that keeps the donkey walking. Whereas Harris understands that, but at the same time he's seen a few donkeys walk right off the edge of a cliff while single-mindedly pursuing their carrot. Or, more in keeping with the times, seen a few donkeys trample a few kids who got in their way while they were running after the carrot. He's more aware of the potential down side of faith mistaken for fact, and the danger of focus- ing on a dangling carrot to the point that one can no longer see the other things and people around them accurately. All in all, it's been an interesting discussion, if a little long-winded.
