Vaj wrote: > I made no comments on Dzogchen, > So you're saying that Dzogchen isn't Buddhist Sadhana.
> we were discussing Lawson's TM dogmas of effort vs. > effortlessness. Sogyal Rinpoche does state it nicely. > It's not a TM dogma - Suzuki, Sogyal, and Laksmanjoo agree that striving and effort is counterproductive to entering into a state of samadhi. According to Swami Venkatesananda, "The Spirit of enquiry into the substance of the Pranva dispels all the obstacles or distractions without necessarily wrestling or struggling with them." Maharishi and Swami Venkatesananda: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/images/vent.jpg > The key to understanding this from a Patanjali POV is > to understand the difference between samprajnata samadhi, > cognitive samadhi and asamprajnata or acognitive samadhi. > The former relies on alambanas or supports (or "supportive > factors"). In samprajnata the mind needs an object--either > a gross or a subtle one. The objects can be any of the 24 > forms of gross and subtle matter or an incarnation of > god, etc. > > These all require effort or subtle effort, usually this > involves a "meditator" (one deciding to meditate), a > process of meditation (a process) and an object of that > meditation (e.g. a mantra). Achieving a calm or transcendent > state, where these three unite somewhat, from such means, > is effortful even if one successfully transcends as one > is still stuck in a subtle chain of action. One has not > transcended action or karma. > Says Mumon: "Wind flag, mind moves, The same understanding. When the mouth opens All are wrong."
