> > > > > Just my usual too quick on the trigger response. I > > > > > hear the term "super string" or anything of that ilk > > > > > associated with TM and my brain locks-up! I'm sure it > > > > > can have value for people, such as John Hagelin, who > > > > > actually understand it and can facilitate deeper > > > > > understanding of the mechanichs of consciousness, but > > > > > for us lay folk it is mind numbing..... > > > > > > > > That's its true purpose. :-) > > > > > > the invoking the "too quick on the trigger response" part or > > > the "mind numbing" part? > > > > The "mind numbing" part. > > I was asking a bit tongue-in-check. I understood your intent. But > wanted to (humorously ?) introduce another possibility -- that M. > does > such to invoke an irritation / vansana-driven response to it. > Resolvong the vasana in those who respond. Perhaps a fringe theory, > but as credible as the trance / marketing theory, IMO.
Whatever floats your boat. :-) You'll notice, however, that it gives Maharishi the benefit of believing that he actually knows what the heck he's doing, something I'm not as anxious to do as those who don't want to deal with the possibility that they've spent their lives following someone who may have no more clue than they do. :-) > N.s comment about leaving Purusha because he did not pass the test > of patience, may (maybe not) be an example of this. IMO, and > experience, > M uses a lot of techniques to purify those around him. As did SBS, > apparently -- sending M running with "secret" message to swami miles > away. M to only find out it was a sort of hoax, just to put M thru > some necessary loop of activity. Such tecnniques can drive many > "crazy" and they leave. Others stick it out, and apparently gain > some good thngs. I can't say for sure. But I know the techniques > have validity from experience. Couldn't you have "gained" just as much benefit from banging your head against a wall? Again, you seem to be projecting onto Maharishi some kind of "guru knowledge" that "told" him that Pointless Exercise In Frustration 32.4 was just the thing that Seeker 18,784 "needed" to resolve some karma. Another perfectly reasonable explanation for SBS send- ing Maharishi off on a wild goose chase is that he (Maharishi) was just being a pain in the ass and SBS wanted to GET RID OF HIM and have a blessed few hours without some adoring bhakti-freak dogging his heels. :-) > > It's a sales technique > > designed to make the buyer think, "Ooooo, these > > people are smarter than I am. I can tell because > > they use big words that I don't understand. There- > > fore they know what they're talking about." > > I am sure there is a segment of the market that responds like that. > I suggest it may be smaller than you surmise. I work in the computer industry. The segment of the market that responds to incomprehensible geekspeak is well established. Shocking, but well established. I'm reminded of P.T. Barnum's famous line when the crowds weren't leaving the tent quickly enough after one of his shows and he needed to get them out of the tent so he could fill it with more suckers for the next show. He picked up a bullhorn and started shouting, "This way to see the egress. This way to see the egress." Everyone rushed out of the tent, anxious to find out what an "egress" was and ooh and aah over it. This way to see the quantum mechanical level of life. Better hurry. :-) > > And > > so they sign on the dotted line, or continue to > > buy the inferior products of an inferior company > > because they have bought into the company's use > > of buzzwords. > > > > It's the same model used to sell hardware and > > software. We in the industry call it "geekspeak." > > The more incomprehensible geekspeak you throw > > into the blurbs about your product, the more of > > the product you are likely to sell. > > To fools perhaps. Most people I know respond to substance. > Perhaps you hang with the wrong crowd Did I ever suggest that the people who fall for geek- speak were NOT fools? I thought that was implicit in what I said. But fall for it they do. Just look at the marketing brochures for high-end software aimed at businesses; the more incomprehensible the geekspeak, the better it sells, and the more Fortune 500 busi- nesses are dependent upon it. > > Whatever the intellectual "can I connect these > > possibly unrelated dots in my mind" value that > > hypothetical exercises like Hagelin's might have > > for *him*, their value to the TM movement is as > > geekspeak. > > > One of the trends that one finds in the study of > > *many* spiritual traditions is that many of the > > traditions that made the biggest impact on > > society, and in some cases have lasted the longest > > in history, were the ones that *dispensed with* > > geekspeak, or presented a clear alternative to it. > > So the premeise is that those who communicate clearly have > a larger impact than those who don't. Perhaps a revolutionary > concept. I would have thought that the premise was that those who talk about things that most people are actually interested in have a larger impact than those who talk about things that only they are interested in. <snip> > > In the beginning, the TM movement taught in clear, > > non-geekspeak language about the benefits of medi- > > tation. > > More stage II. In the beginning, it was God-consciousness, divine > love, angels, gods, and Charlie Lutes golden oratory of SRM. That's *spiritual* geekspeak, not the pseudo-scientific geekspeak I had in mind. :-) Before you get all defensive trying to justify MMY and TM's approach, the "geekspeak" I'm talking about here is the reliance on "scientific" speculation when claiming to justify the theory behind TM or the benefits of TM or its other products. Not even the so-called "studies" on TM, just the so-called "parallels" to quantum physics that only really started with Domash. I'm talking about the period of time when the TMO really hit the skids, reality-wise, and started published huge tracts filled with terms from Physics that were clearly speculative and just as clearly designed to introduce a "Wow, aren't we smart because we throw around all these terms from Physics that we don't understand either" factor. In other words, marketing bullshit. Geekspeak. :-) > > And it developed quite a following. Over > > the years it abandoned that approach and began to > > rely more and more on geekspeak, which in my opinion > > was more designed to pander to and hold onto the > > existing followers than to attract new ones. The > > result? As some have pointed out here, more existing > > TMers die every year than new TMers are created. > > I find a lot of the newer language and cited studies more > straightforward than the SIMS days. YMMV. But I'm not TALKING about the so-called "studies." I'm talking about drawing parallels between what happens with TM/transcendence or the mechanics of consciousness and the mechanics of quantum physics. In other words, trying to *sell products* by some- how linking them to abstract notions of quantum physics that 1 in a million people understand. Stuff like on this Web page: http://www.theraj.com/mvvt/index.html > > I'm not convinced that geekspeak is a good thing > > when it comes to spiritual teaching. Yeah, it may > > appeal to the intellect, which in turn appeals to > > the ego and the small self. > > Perhaaps. And perhaps it doesn't exist but theories about > geekspeak do the same for "some people" :) Are you really trying to claim that geekspeak doesn't exist, or that it is not used on a regular basis by Maharishi and the TMO to sell its products? > > But does it really help > > your life in any way to hear about superstrings and > > such stuff? > > Yes. And black holes, and quantum mechanics, and reltivity > theory. It all stretches the mind. And, seemingly, the ego. :-) > Undgrounds one from false views of the universe. And...uh...convinces the easily-convinced that they now have a "correct" view of the universe? :-) > Its marvelous stuff. > > > Many people seem to *want* their minds > > numbed by high-falootin' language and concepts > > that they don't really understand. They *like* > > that stuff. > > Speak for yourself, if your mind numbs up, fine, but don't > extraploate that as a universal. I find relativity and > string theory, when I am ready and open to it, is enlivening, > far from numbing. Whatever floats yer boat, dude. Look, if you're asking whether I *understand* that some people get off on play- ing with concepts like this, playing mindgames in which they try to construct models that describe the universe in terms that they can understand, I do understand that. It's just that I'm pretty convinced that ALL of these models are bullshit, mere mental masturbation. NONE of them IMO really describes the universe and its inner workings, because such things are (again, IMO) basically beyond description. So to me such exercises are just mind candy for egos to suck on to convince themselves that they "understand." The map is not the territory. In the Web page I posted the link to above, the TMO is drawing a map and not only claiming that it IS the territory, but trying to use the map to sell its products. Some people buy that, and thus buy the products; I do not. If you get off on constructing models for how things work, MORE POWER TO YOU. May the models you construct for How Things Work make you happy, and help your ego to believe that it's actually got a "handle" on How Things Work. I don't. How Things Work is still as big a mystery to me after 40 years on the spiritual path as it was when I started on it, and I like that just fine. I *get off* on the mystery of it all. If you like playing with models, GO FOR IT. Go to town, dude. Come up with all the models you want with which to "explain" the universe and "understand" it. But just don't try to sell me expensive products based on your "understanding." Fingers pointing to the moon are not the moon; they're just some guy giving you the finger.
