Note: I am forwarding a response from Swami G to the last post. There is a mixture of comments from me and also the poster. Me = T ( short for Tanmay which is my spirital name given at diksha), *= the poster, and G = Swami G:
T: Coming from my Guru, it was said there is a tradition where a Guru was appointed Guru by their Guru. Furthermore, Maharishi did not take full Sanyas vows, or full vows within the tradition of GuruDev. Maybe he was a secretary? It is not normal for a Guru to entrust the innermost knowledge to a secretary. * Well here one must say, that neither you nor your Guru are fully knowledgeable about this tradition. See, its very simple to take one tradition, where one comes from, and then project on another tradition, how things ought to be. And its os nice to have email, yahoo messanger and internet at ones disposal, and using it for instruction (some more traditioanlly minded people wouldn't do). But then why doesn't your Guru look up a simple article about the Dasanami Sampradaya on Wikipedia, and she would know, that in the Saraswati order only Brahmins can be made Sanyasis? G Look i KNOW this type of tradition, i am INITIATED into this type of tradition - ok you have read about it . The brother sister ones to here are Bharati/Giri/Puri and although i am not within the Saraswati Akh??as have spent time with Sadhus that are - and trust me in this we have the same basic practices and knowledge. All 10 come down from Shakaracharya - All 10 are basically Shavite. As far as Jyotimath is concerned *Giri* is the name associated with this Math - Traditionally the Saraswatis are from the south. So do i need to read up to find out about this lineage - i Live this lineage. * This would resolve her argument. G there is no argument - i am commenting from Living within the Tradition of being a fully initiated Renunicate that has lived not only here but also within this sect in india. ---- * That MMY was GD's secretary, doesn't mean he was just employed vs being a student. G he was a Brahachari - it is known absolutely that he was not a fully initiated Swami. Undoubtedly he was a student there are many such nowadays - brahmachari's that are in the process of learning About the tradition before being formally inducted into it. This is a common practice. * Anyone can see on the youtube video that he was speaking in front of GD, he is shown on photos of showing the first president of india around in the Ashram - so don't tell me he didn't have the trust of GD. I am not saying Swami G is totally wrong, but I do see that she takes her own path as sort of absolute. G My path IS the same tradition as the one he is supposed to be speaking from. -------- this is what you don't understand. He may have been showing the first president around the Ashram but this proves absolutely nothing. The problem is you have only read about the traditions and haven't actually lived within them. T: My Guru said that in her case, there is one being groomed now for this position, but this is one that has taken sanyas and it simply is a flow that this person is selected. My Gurus general comments are this is how a Guru is appointed, not by wanting to be Guru or declaring ones self to be one. * Traditionally this is the case. G yes And ? there are no but's - this is the way it has been and continues to remain. * But look at the controversies in many traditions, Hindu and Buddhist - very often the succession is not clear. G look succession was not clear when it came to Guru Dev. That Math had no heir for over 100 Years. - Guru Dev was choosen and approved by the other Shankaracharya's. That is true. But there is NO way - not ANYWHERE - that a Shankaracharya is going to appoint a brahmachari that is not even a full swami as the one to carry on as a Guru. ------ he may give him blessings but he most assuredly will not appoint him to buck the whole of the tradition. And what you are putting forth would be exactly that. * There maybe contradiory statements of the Guru, like in the case of Muktananda, G Muktananda was also not held up or appointed. i have this on full reliability with one that was With Nithyananda at his passing. Nithyananda left his body by will - and was quite clear as to why. This is another matter though one that i will not get into at this point in time. * or simply missing public instructions, or the tradition has a certain restrictive format, like in the case of GD. G i know what the restrictions are within this tradition. i also know what mantras are given - i know the in's and outs of this tradition as far as what the Dasnami traditions do and don't do. --- did you know that we have a secret language that one initiate Sadhu speaks to another ? This way we can distinguish who is a Sadhu versus who has adopted the clothing. There are other secret practices which are clearly known to true intiated which general public has no knowledge of. And i am not within liberty to speak of them openly as this would be a violation of this tradition. there is no way a full initiate would be wearing white - and while he may claim Guru Dev as his Guru, like stated before there is no way a Full initiate and most certainly a Shakaracharya that holds the rules of the order intact is going to appoint a half initiate as a guru. * Therefor I think your Gurus assesment is somewhat restrictive. G you may think what you want - you may read what you want. But UNTIL you actually are initiated into one of the 10 Dasanimi Orders and actually live in india within that tradition there is no way you can determine fact from made up press. And there is a LOT of Made Up Press with Mahesh Yogi. Notice it is not Swami Mahesh-Saraswati Nor is it Mahesh-Giri , nor Mahesh-Bharati etc. He may claim to be a part of these traditions but no way is he initiated into it. And once again let it be reminded that the Math in the North is that of Giri. He most certainly could have become an full initiate. - * I also agree lagely with the critics of MMY's public antics, with the critics of many that the focus of the movement shifted to all these side issues, etc G so you can see part of it - Do you REALLY think that ANY Sampradya would stand behind any of this ? Does it shed a good light on the Tradition ? T: My Guru started a TM yahoo discussion group, there are already some posts up about this subject: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or try this: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TM_Discussion/?yguid=228252276 > My Guru is from the same tradition as TM's Guru Dev. G i am of two lineages Giri and Puri - i have connection with two of the 10 Dasanami divisions. ---- Even in the US i still have ties to the malibu temple which is connected with the southern Kanchipuram Math. in Sept. we will be initiating a few into Sannyas. * Obviously not, as she is a westerner, and could not have been made a swami in the saraswati order of he Dasanami Sampradaya. Lucky for, otherwise she would also be a 'self-appointed Guru' G The Jhuna Achraya in fact has had women initiates and does allow them for years. The Achraya is located in Haridwar. i know many of the Sadhus that are around Rishikesh, Haridwar and Badrinath. My First Sadhaka was a Sadhu living in one of the caves in Badrinath. Most of the dasanami's traditions have been wanderers - they don't live in Ashrams. Traditionally while one is seeking they are to only remain in one place for a maximum of 3 days - this is so they don't build up attachments. During the rainy season though they may remain in one place and then you give whatever teachings you have to the people in that area. Now though more and more Sadhus are building and staying in transient kutias (huts) for a time. When living outside one builds and maintains a Dhunni - this fire is a representation of Shiva - it is kept with great respect. Unfortunately so many in this tradition have gone the way of taking charas and talking bullcrap most of the day rather than doing the internal Sadhana that is required to enter Realization. IN Haridwar and Rishikesh this Swami is very much respected for the fact that i am not a smoker of charas not of ganja ------- there are a Few that are keeping the tradition minus the drugs but they are becoming fewer and fewer. My suggestion is you go to india --- spend time with the Sadhus and Sadhvis within the Dasanami traditions and then you will find out with more clarity just where Mahesh Yogi comes from. The Dasanami's are the ones who during Khumbamella are sky clad - sans clothing. We carry the Danda as a symbol of Upholding the Tradition and will fight if need be to protect it. - and it also represents that we are of the ONE divine Being. There is such a disconnect between reading about the Dasanami traditions and actually living it. i feel the tradition needs to be updated Especially in context of living within the US. Even in india things are going through a change. - but saying this before making changes within a tradition one has to First understand the foundations of it. Maha Shanti OM 0
