--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Judy, You understand the problems with the lack of evidence in the > assertion. I am disappointed to see your support for his taking a > personal shot at me in the context of a discussion of ideas.
Has nothing to do with whether there is evidence for Jim's assertion, and you know it. It isn't even about supporting Robert's shot at you. You're trying to make it something that you can self-righteously bluster about because you can't defend your equation of what Jim said with fundies (or Catholics, makes no difference) claiming everyone but them is going to hell. Your entire response here is disgracefully disingenuous. You know what the problem is. Jim, Robert, and I have all pointed it out. If you can't just acknowledge and, hopefully, apologize for the bogus comparison, you'd do much better to just keep quiet rather than compound the problem by addressing it dishonestly. > > Jim "> > However, someone had to revitalize the spiritual momentum of the > > > world. The religions weren't doing it. The fact that it is Maharishi > > > and Guru Dev doesn't matter much. It could have been anyone else. > > > Reality check: Its just that it wasn't, though Yogananda did a great > > > job of softening up the soil in the West so to speak." > > Me: The belief that MMY is unique in the ability to "revitalize the > spiritual momentum of the world" by a member of his tiny group does > remind me of the people who believe that they out of all the people on > the planet have the spiritual specialness to go to heaven because of > their beliefs. The mechanism of inflating personal specialness is > identical, only the content of the belief is different. In each case > the person believes that they are intrinsically special due to their > beliefs and subjective experiences. I am not misstating the claim, I > am disagreeing with it exactly as it was stated and comparing it to > another example of that type of assertion by similarly sincere > religious people. > > By all means bring on the evidence for the claim of MMY "revitalizing > the spiritual momentum of the world" while Yogananda was merely > "softening the soil", Judy. > > Neither your phrase, "grossly and insultingly misstated", nor > > Judy: "As Robert correctly noted, this is the type of > > deliberate, malicious distortion we see from > > people like Karl Rove; decent people are at a > > loss to find an explation for it." > > take the place of evidence for the claim, and they don't distract me > from the lack of it. But I would love to hear how "decent" people > might come to the conclusion that my pointing out the lack of evidence > for the assertion makes "decent people" compelled to claim that my > sexual energy is misdirected, whatever that means. (nice but slippery > touch dropping his misdirected sexual energy charge, it made him seem > so much more "decent" while making a personal attack in response to a > discussion of religious beliefs.) > > I was comparing the style of thinking with other sincere religious > people ( I was thinking of Catholics, but many Christian sects > believe they will uniquely go to heaven, the "fundies" assumption was > your own invention) Robert, and now you, are comparing my skepticism > to these claims and pointing out a similarity to other religious > people's beliefs to a reviled character in politics. So unless you > feel that your belief in MMY's claims are so totally special that even > making a comparison to other religious people's beliefs is "grossly > and insultingly misstated", you can hold the faux outrage and the > phony "decent people" routine. > > Karl Rove! Decent people! Misdirected sexual energy! Oh my! > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > "Perhaps it has to do with misdirected sexual energy?" > > > > > > If you had any evidence to support the claim I was challenging then > > > you wouldn't need to make degrading personal comments. Casting > > > aspersions on me personally doesn't help your cause, it just reveals > > > your own limitations in a discussion of ideas. > > > > I think he was referring to the fact that you > > grossly and insultingly misstated what Jim had > > said about MMY and Guru Dev, equating it with > > fundies claiming "they alone will go to heaven > > while people believing a slightly different > > version of the same myth will suffer in hell." > > > > As Robert correctly noted, this is the type of > > deliberate, malicious distortion we see from > > people like Karl Rove; decent people are at a > > loss to find an explation for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Robert Gimbel" <babajii_99@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > (snip) > > > > "This kind of spiritual oneupmanship certainly isn't > > > > > restricted > > > > > > to MMY's tiny group. Think of the spiritual arrogance at the > > > > > basis of > > > > > > huge factions of Christianity believing that they alone will > > go to > > > > > > heaven while people believing a slightly different version of > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > myth will suffer in hell for their lack of growing up in > > > > > the "right" > > > > > > version. > > > > > > > > > > > > But they all fall in the category of pretending to "know" > > things > > > > > that > > > > > > you couldn't possibly know. It is a self inflation of value > > > > > > relegating poor Yogananda to fluffer status in this spiritual > > > > > > regeneration skin flick. > > > > > > > > > > > So, you are saying that I have at least a 50 percent chance of > > > > being > > > > > completely correct? And you have an equally 50% chance of being > > > > > completely wrong, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And where did you get this notion that what I said is anything > > > > > remotely like the TM folks go to heaven and the rest go to > > hell? > > > > > That implied exclusivity is something Turq brought up also. I > > don't > > > > > get it. I have never implied or assumed anything like that. :-) > > > > > > > > Well, I guess you could declare that the -Ego~ made me do it. > > > > > > > > -Take a perfectly good explanation, and somehow polarize it. > > > > In a way, we are so used to polarization, these days. > > > > -Karl Rove, who guided the Bushes into the WH, is a master of > > this > > > > type of thing... > > > > -Perhaps it has to do with misdirected sexual energy? > > > > Who knows, but if you asked Sigmund??, you know what he would > > say... > > > > So, who knows? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > "Perhaps it has to do with misdirected sexual energy?" > > > > > > If you had any evidence to support the claim I was challenging then > > > you wouldn't need to make degrading personal comments. Casting > > > aspersions on me personally doesn't help your cause, it just reveals > > > your own limitations in a discussion of ideas. > > > > I think he was referring to the fact that you > > grossly and insultingly misstated what Jim had > > said about MMY and Guru Dev, equating it with > > fundies claiming "they alone will go to heaven > > while people believing a slightly different > > version of the same myth will suffer in hell." > > > > As Robert correctly noted, this is the type of > > deliberate, malicious distortion we see from > > people like Karl Rove; decent people are at a > > loss to find an explation for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Robert Gimbel" <babajii_99@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > (snip) > > > > "This kind of spiritual oneupmanship certainly isn't > > > > > restricted > > > > > > to MMY's tiny group. Think of the spiritual arrogance at the > > > > > basis of > > > > > > huge factions of Christianity believing that they alone will > > go to > > > > > > heaven while people believing a slightly different version of > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > myth will suffer in hell for their lack of growing up in > > > > > the "right" > > > > > > version. > > > > > > > > > > > > But they all fall in the category of pretending to "know" > > things > > > > > that > > > > > > you couldn't possibly know. It is a self inflation of value > > > > > > relegating poor Yogananda to fluffer status in this spiritual > > > > > > regeneration skin flick. > > > > > > > > > > > So, you are saying that I have at least a 50 percent chance of > > > > being > > > > > completely correct? And you have an equally 50% chance of being > > > > > completely wrong, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And where did you get this notion that what I said is anything > > > > > remotely like the TM folks go to heaven and the rest go to > > hell? > > > > > That implied exclusivity is something Turq brought up also. I > > don't > > > > > get it. I have never implied or assumed anything like that. :-) > > > > > > > > Well, I guess you could declare that the -Ego~ made me do it. > > > > > > > > -Take a perfectly good explanation, and somehow polarize it. > > > > In a way, we are so used to polarization, these days. > > > > -Karl Rove, who guided the Bushes into the WH, is a master of > > this > > > > type of thing... > > > > -Perhaps it has to do with misdirected sexual energy? > > > > Who knows, but if you asked Sigmund??, you know what he would > > say... > > > > So, who knows? > > >
