--- In [email protected], "Ron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The only thing I can think of at the moment, after reading your > whole post, is that famous quote, if at first you dont succeed, > try and try again.
In other words, just as I was saying at the beginning of this exchange, you're saying, "I am projecting my experience onto you and declaring it 'right.' Your 'failure' is that you haven't found the 'right' guru." :-) Dude, I'm just pokin' fun, but what I'm trying to point out to you is your *assumption* that one *needs* a guru. You just *assumed* it again. > Possibly rather than lump the whole Guru trip as > something you have decided you were bored with, as > none of them did anything for you... Whoops...stop right there. You *projected* that onto me. I never said it. I *would* never say it. I gained *much* from my time spent with guru figures. And I'm not the least bit interested in doing it again. > ...maybe one who has taken this stance can consider that > since they have heard from others saying, yes, my Guru is > this and that, and yes the glories of the Guru-- > So then try and try again with a different Guru and see > if you run into one where a lasting transformation occurs > for you... In other words, "Only the path that I believe is working for me will work for you." :-) > - and then therefore you may continue with that path- but > again, it is up to you- could be- I tried 5 gurus, got > nothing, so all are no good, or not the one for me so > next- all up to you , "as Barry's world turns" At least my soap opera varies its plot. :-) It would seem that yours does not. If I understand correctly from those who were here during your earlier appearances on FFL, you spent much of your time then parroting the words of some authority figure who had convinced you that they knew more than you did. Now you're hear parroting the words of another authority figure who has convinced you that she knows more than you do, and furthermore that you "need" her. Seems to me that the only thing that has changed in *your* soap opera are the writers. :-) You're still spouting someone else's dialog. And, as above, you don't shirk from saying that other people's lives would be better if they found *themselves* a writer to write *their* dialog as well. In fact, if they *don't* have a guru/writer to write their lines for them, they haven't "succeeded." They are failures. What I'm trying to convey to you is that, as I see it, the history of self realization is rife with "gurus" who have told their students, "You can't do it without me." If you look at the students who have believed this, and have spent their lives following these gurus and doing everything they said to do, and then ask how many of them have really achieved the realization they were seeking, it seems to me that the gurus could have *shortened* their teaching somewhat, to: "You can't do it." That certainly seems to have been the result. I'm *happy* that you're happy having found someone to write your lines for you, Ron. I'm *happy* that you feel that you're making progress spouting that person's lines. I have no problem with any of this. But when you start inferring that one can "succeed" in their spiritual quest only *by* finding someone else to write their lines for them, then you've crossed a line, and I have to speak up. Since you've returned to this board, and started using it as a forum to parrot your guru's words, I haven't heard very many of your *own* words, much that indicates that there is much other than a parrot *behind* these posts. If your idea of "success" on a spiritual path is to have no ideas of your own, I would suggest that you may have succeeded. But that's not my idea of success. > - In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ron" <sidha7001@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > My post is about a topic one level further up the > > > > logic tree -- why do you assume that someone is a > > > > "guru," and *when* you do, why do you assume that > > > > their opinion has any more weight than your own, > > > > or anyone else's. > > > > > > ** Again, the real bottom line to it, after using all sorts > > > of logical answers and discussions is that if it is not known > > > with direct knowing, faith is needed, after using your best > > > discression you have. The entire way you choose to move forward, > > > with a Guru, without, each one in the end has to make their own > > > choice and live with that choice > > > > Yup. I like -- and have no problem with -- the fact > > that you realize that one's belief that someone is > > a guru and that their advice is valuable is a matter > > of faith. That's how I see it as well. > > > > One *chooses* one's "authority figures," and IMO one > > *assigns* authority to them. They don't necessarily > > *have* any authority *or* knowledge that the seeker > > doesn't assign to them. But if that assignment helps > > the seeker, more power to them. > > > > > > That strikes me as a far more interesting subject. > > > > > > > > Seems to me, from reading your posts, that your > > > > definition of "guru" is twofold: 1) people that you > > > > consider to be gurus, and 2) people that one of the > > > > people you consider a guru have *told* you are gurus. > > > > > > > > Please explain to us *why* you consider someone a > > > > "guru," and *why* someone else should pay any more > > > > attention to their opinions than to anyone else's. > > > > > > **I think you have it right- it works out to my discretion - I > > > lay out my own criteria for what a real guru is, then see who > > > fills that prescription. OK, for example, intuiton says Ramana > > > Maharishi is- now he gives answers to all the questions > > > you are asking here- you can have a look at it at > > > www.kundalinisupport.com, under the > > > section - the need for a guru > > > > I'll pass, thanks. While I admire Ramana Maharshi, too, > > I don't really have much interest in any "teachings" > > about the "need for a guru." With a few exceptions (him > > being one of them), teachings that stress the "need for > > a guru" have historically come from gurus and traditions > > that have *profited financially* from that teaching. > > > > On a more personal level, as we have discussed before, > > I have no interest in gurus or guru figures, *except* > > in terms of my overall study of spirituality and how > > it is manifested in different groups. *That* I find > > fascinating. Same thing here on FFL...I rarely find > > myself interested in anything that Maharishi is quoted > > as having said, or that some other teacher or scripture > > is quoted as having said, but I'm *continually* fascin- > > ated by what the *believers* in these teachers and/or > > these scriptures have to say. > > > > *Especially* when there is some cognitive dissonance > > raised by what they say they believe and how they act. > > *That* fascinates me endlessly. > > > > > > I'm asking not to put you on the spot personally, > > > > Ron (although it does, a little), but because this > > > > approach to life and "truth" appears so often on > > > > this forum. A great number of posts here can be > > > > deconstructed and analyzed as saying, "X is true > > > > because guru Y says it's true," or "X is true > > > > because scripture Y" says it's true. > > > > > > > > For those who *make* those kinds of posts, please > > > > explain to me "Y" you believe that the Y's you cite > > > > have more of a clue as to what constitutes truth > > > > than anyone else. :-) > > > > > > I can offer you my Guru's general comments about this: > > > > And sorry, but I'm really *not interested* in your > > guru's comments on this. I'm interested in *your* > > comments and thoughts on this, expressed in *your* > > words, not hers. There's a difference. > > > > I've spent too much of my life listening to the words > > of someone who considered themselves a guru. I'm bored > > senseless with it, and find little of interest in any- > > thing they have to say. But I find myself endlessly > > interested in what their *followers* have to say, if > > one can get them to say it in their own words, without > > a single reference to an authority figure or an auth- > > ority scripture. > > > > The former is like listening to a parrot; I find myself > > wanting to pop a cracker into the poster's mouth after > > reading what they have to say. "Nablus want a cracker?" :-) > > > > But when I read the posts that Curtis writes, or that > > Edg writes, or that many other people write here, posts > > that seem to come from their *own* experience, and their > > *own* attempts to figure things out (as opposed to having > > someone figure things out for them), I can feel a strong > > difference, one that prompts me to respond to *them* as > > a human being and a fellow seeker. I don't get that same > > feeling from the parrots. > > > > It's probably my limitation, but there you jolly well > > are, aren't you... :-) > > >
