With all the cleaning supplies you mentioned, it started me wondering. Could it be that the scents in these products are offensive to him and he's spraying to improve the smell of the place, (in his estimation?) I know that dogs will sometimes scent mark when they enter a new dwelling to make themselves more comfortable. Maybe it's the chicken and the egg syndrome, but if you've always used heavily perfumed cleaning products... For the most part, I use a white vinegar, baking soda and water solution to clean. Just a thought.
Nina
Lora wrote:
Belinda,
I have already tried to get a prescription for Fluoxetine (kitty Prozac) or Fluvoxamine (a stronger anti-depressant than Fluoxetine) from any of the four (4) veterinarians who are involved with Dartagnan's case, but they are extremely leery to prescribe any of the medications that I have suggested.
One (1) veterinarian in particular told me that he
absolutely would not, under ANY circumstance, write a
prescription for either one (1) of those drugs. He
accused me of literally taking the anti-depressants
myself and that I was using my cat as an excuse to get
a hold of the medication!
I told him that was a false and insane accusation! I have never heard of anything more absurd in my life! Cat medications (of any kinds) would be lethal to human consumption and vice versa.
At the very least, the anti-depressants would have no affect on a human due to the severe body weight difference. The prescriptions are based and CAT'S body weight NOT a human's; therefore, the medication would be an extremely lower dosages compared to a prescription written by a Ph.D. for a human.
The veterinarian became extremely argumentative after I told him this. According to him, I was NOT supposed to know such things being how HE was the veterinarian and I was NOT; therefore, I was not qualified in such matters.
To hell with that! I am Dartagnan's mother! I know him better than anyone, including the veterinarians. I know when my kid is not feeling well and I know what is best for him! I wanted to work WITH the veterinarian, NOT tell him how to do his job! I needed a professional who was willing to work with ME and my kid NOT argue with me.
"If you are hell bent of getting any unnecessary anti-depressants for this cat, it will NOT be through MY practice! This case is off of my conscience."
"Besides," he continued, "what you are doing is a form of animal abuse. Twelve (12) cats in one (1) house is the worse form of animal abuse there is and I could easily report you for violation of city ordinance for being a hoarder."
I told him he can report me to anyone he saw fit, but it would not do much good. His veterinary practice was in one (1) county and I resided in another. Not only that, but I resided in the COUNTY not the city, which released me of any possible "city ordinance" as they did not pertain to my area of location! I am definitely NOT a hoarder!
With that, he hung up on me! He has officially been resigned as Dartagnan's veterinarian.
So, that explains why Dartagnan's current medications are not working. He needs a stronger prescription, but no veterinarian is willing to fill it.
As far as cleaning supplies/solutions, honey I have them all! :)
1.) Bissesll Pet Oder and Soil: Removal formula. Contains Scotchgard (for carpets and upholstery.)
2.) Woolite: One Step with FibraPure Odor Eliminator. Foam Carper Cleaner.
3.) Woolite: Fabric and Upholstery. Foam Cleaner. Removes stains and odors.
4.) Woolite: Pet Carpet Cleaner. Foam Cleaner. Cleans and freshens entire carpet.
5.) Carpet Fresh: Super Pet. Neutralizes Pet Odors. No vacuum foam carpet refresher
6.) Carpet Fresh: No Vacuum Foam Carpet Cleaner Apple Cinnamon
7.) Nature's Miracle: Stain and order Remover.
8.) Nature's Miracle" Just For Cats Stain and Odor Remover.
9.) Simple Solution Cat Spray & Urine Stain & Odor Remover
10.) Proforce: Carpet Extraction Cleaner (commercial strength.)
11.) Kirby: Carpet Shampoo
12.) Hoover Steam Vac: Carpet/Upholstery
13.) Glade: County Garden Carpet and Room Deodorizer
14.) Glade: Potpourri Carpet and Room Springtime
15.) Glade: Potpourri Carpet and Room Cinnamon
Just to name a few.
Dartagnan is two (2) years old. I have had him the entire time... for two (2) years. I have no clue HOW the spraying started or why, but it has been a continued problem for two (2) years.
To my knowledge he gets along fine with the other kitties. Due to his robust size most of the other kids simply avoid him. Plus, eight (8) out of the twelve (12) are declawed.
NOTE: Just for the record. I rescued them in the CONDITION. I did NOT have a declaw surgery performed! Therefore, if his size is not intimidating then I imagine his claws are.
But it does not make any sense! Dartagnan is the biggest kitty and HAS his claws intact then the OTHER kids SHOULD be spraying, NOT him! Why would he need to spray if no one is willing to pick a fight with him?
Belinda, I agree with you about NOT killing an animal due to behavioral problems, but to what extent? I have already spent close to $12,000 in repairs as it is. Where do pet guardians draw the line?
No, separating Dartagnan to his own room is not an option. With twelve (12) indoor kitties they need access to every room for ample living space. Besides, by closing him off, will close off some of the litter boxes and that only escalates the problem.
For now, his is confined to his own "Kennel Crate" in the living room.
I have been looking for a no-kill animal shelter/sanctuary in surrounding states for the past year, but all are full at the moment.
When I inform the individual, over the phone, that Dartagnan is positive for Feline Herpes they do not what him regardless if there was vacancy or not. He poses a threat to the other cats who are negative to Feline Herpes.
I am running out of options.
Lora
--- Belinda Sauro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Lora,
My Cody was also a marker, he did it from the moment
he stepped footfin the house. He did have certain
spots but other than that my story is similar to
yours. Some days he would mark 2 or 3 times a day.
Marking is a very hard thing to deal with. In your case, IF you have had him thoroughly checked out to make sure it is not a medical issue (I don't know that blood tests alone would detect all the things that can cause this, it might be a question for our newest member Dr. Susan) then it's a behavioral issue and very hard to figure out.
Cody also was on about 4 different medications, the
three you mentioned and fluxotine, and we tried
feliway, rescue remedy, praying and God only knows
what else.
The medication called fluxotine (not sure that's spelled right) is what finally worked, it took me over a year to figure it out, it was the last medication we had to try. It is also referred to as kitty prozac.
Cody had kitty hierarchy issues and had no clue how to get along with other cats, then to top that off he aggravated my mellowest guy Fred who then decided he'd had enough and started fighting back still to this day they are wary of each other.
The first thing is you have to be absolutely sure the smell is gone. Just because you can't smell it doesn't mean Dartagnan can't smell it.
I have been told you have to thoroughly soak the effected area with a kitty urine smell and stain remover and let it air dry. I would do it several times since this has been going on for so long. I use Simple Solution from Foster & Smith, I buy it in the gallon size and use it to clean puke messes and actually shampoo my carpets with it when I shampoo them.
If your positive there are no cats outside causing his territorial behavior then it is one or more of the cats inside he is having issues with. Watch how they interact it shouldn't be hard to figure out. You say he was equally accepted by your other kitties but that doesn't mean (for whatever reason) he didn't like someone or felt insecure around one or more of the kitties.
Cody was not attacked or bothered in any way other than the other cats would go up to him to sniff at him. He immediately felt he was being attacked and would get defensive and this of course confused the resident cats and after a few incidents of this they decided to fight back.
Does he get into little skirmishes with anyone, it could be something as simple as walking by someone and grouching. Cody and Fred to this day play the I don't like you game and take turns going after each other. Yet they can sit two feet away and eat peacefully, and on most occasions just ignore each other. But on some days they are keeping a close eye on each other.
When did the problem start? How long have you had Dartagnan, has he always done this?
I've a had Cody going on three years now. It took over a year to get him on the correct medicine and almost 6 to 8 months before he had quit spraying altogether.
I also put Fred on it because by then they definitely had a thing between them. I took both of them off after Cody hadn't marked in months and so far he is doing good.
I have caught him twice but that's been in over a years time and it has always been after he and Fred (or KC) are having a particular bad day picking on each other. My KC also occasionally goes after him, so he has his problems.
I know if he is doing it it is not often because I don't smell it, and while I'm not happy about him doing it at all, I can deal with 2 or 3 times a year.
Cody is the biggest cat we have, he's part Maine Coon but he is still a big chicken. Today he does "somewhat" get along with Joey (head kitty), and attempts to play, but he still panics after a few minutes and becomes defensive.
I think Joey is getting used to it. Although, on some occasions it throws him for a loop and he reacts, but for the most part when it happens he runs away and play time is over.
I have to say I absolutely do not agree with killing a cat because of something that for them is quite natural. Is there no possible way to keep him separate? Marking is one of the hardest things to deal with and the number 1 reason kitties are taken to the pound and killed.
Maybe he could be let out to live outside with the outdoor kitties you take care of.
If you can't resolve it then maybe you could try to find a sanctuary that can keep him separate or with one or two other cats that he can tolerate.
Also, he may do well in a household that has no other cats, maybe one that has a dog but no cats, or
one with no other pets.
There is definitely something going on with between Dartagnan and one or more of the kitties inside. It is well known when you have multi-cat household (especially when you get over 5 or 6 cats) if your not having marking problems your very lucky. We've had up to 8 cats at one time and Cody is the first I've ever had a problem with (we have 6 kitties now.)
I hope you can resolve this with out killing Dartagnan. I know how frustrating it is. I had my days with Cody, but killing him was never an option. He is a cat and he is being a cat. He is just letting you know there is a problem in the only way he can.
--Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ...
--- Lora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay group, this is a matter of life and death. No joke! If Dartagnan does not completely and successfully quit spraying I have no choice but to relinquish him into the care of the local county Humane Society and have him euthanized.
This is an extremely emotional decsion for me to make since I am completely anti-PTS! I absolutley do not believe in euthanasia. After Peeper passed it was enough trauma for me.
But my house is traumatized! It is completley ruined and beyond restoration. Nothing and I mean absolutely nothing is sacred to Dartagnan!
He spays electrical, metal, plastic, carboard, wood, fabric, and even glass! I have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars replacing the soiled items.
ELECTRICAL:
He sprays, my electric outlets i.e. plug-ins and phone jacks! I have electrical shorts in the phone line as well as with the appliances. Smokes just rolls out the outlets!
METAL:
He sprays my dishwasher, washing machine, dryer, the metal storm doors, door HINGES themselves, portable heaters, the oven, even the actual stove top and the water heater! He actally even extinguished the pilot light! I literally had no hot water for two (2) days and never understood why!
PLASTIC:
He sprays my kitchen trash can, recycle bin, laundray hanpers, the exterior of the litter boxes, any small plasic applicance on the counter top i.e. the coffee maker, tea maker, toaster, blinder, etc. and plastic bags. When I return home from the grocery store I have to literally race to empty the bags and put them away before he gets to them! (It is the same with brown paper bags!)
CARDBORD:
He sprays on brown paper grocery bags, cat houses that are designed out of "cardboard", boxes and Coke/Pepsi cases! I have to break them down and put the boxes/cases in the recycle bin before he get to those too.
WOOD:
My lower kitchen cabinets are a joke! Not only that but he sprays table and chair legs, wooden doors and PANELS! The doorway thresholds are not immune to his attacks! Forget about having any wooden furniture this house! Curio/China cabinets, bookcases, Grandfather clocks, armoires, antiques, hutches and T.V./stereo entertainment centers all ruined. All have either been replaced or thrown out. The acid in the urine has literlly eaten away the varnish and the brown sticky liquid has seeped into the carpet staining the fabric!
FABRIC:
The carpet is unsalvageable! The spray has gotten into the actaul carpet pad and has soaked into the wooden floor beneath. I even had new capet installed only to have to that ruined too! The installers even applied Kilz paint primer over the original wood floor before installing the new carpet. No luck!
My curtains and upholstery are completely destroyed!
My couch/sofa, love seat, recliners will never be the
same! I had the fabric furniture professionally
steamed upholstered and then had then wrapped in
plastic. Once the plastic was professionally
installed, I had slipcovers fitted for each
inidividual piece. Now when he sprays, I simply take
the slipcoves off and throw them in the washing
machine, but doing this every one (1) to three (3) months has worn out my washing maching! I had to
finally break down and purchase a new one (1) last
month! :(
GLASS:
Dartagnan sprays my glass windows when he jumps on the kitchen counter at night, the windows beside the front and back door, any glass installed in the wood furniture and even pitcure frames! When he climbs on the cat tree-towers he literally sprays was walls and anything hanging on them!
I know that feline inappropriate elimation and soiling is the number one (1) problem with pet oweners, but this is ridiculous! He has managed to "mark" and/or destroy every piece of household funiture that I own in two (2) years!
I have twelve (12) indoor cats. Dartagnan is the youngest. He is two (2). He was netured at four (4) months old and was equally and easily accepted by all the others.
There are thirteen (13) litter boxes throughout the entire house, all in which are easily accessible. They are all located away from windows/doors and are in quiet places within the house. Food and water bowls are NOT in the same locations as the litter boxes.
All thirteen (13) litter boxes are hooded types (I tried the litter "pans" but he personally did not like those.) So I switched back to the origianl hooded version.
All of the litter boxes are scooped twice a day and are hand washed and sterilized once a month.
I have tried every bran of cat litter known to man, clay, scoop, non-scoop, paper, corn/wheat based, ect. and non seem to work. Currently, I am using Tiny Cats Scoopable version. It has been the most successful thus far (and that is NOT saying much!)
I have tried adding MORE litter to the boxes, then taking some out. Some cats like them deep while others like them shallow. Dartagnan does not seem to care either way. He still continues to spray regardless.
He has had a diagnostic laboratory urinalysis and urine culture performed once a year. All have come back negative!
He has been on Baytril, Clindamycin and Doxycycline for "possible" bacterial infections.
Plus, he has been on Clomipramine a.k.a. Clomicalm, Amitriptyline and Buspirone a.k.a. buspar for behavior displacement and/or territorial aggression to no avail. Even all doped up, not be able to walk straight, he somehow still manages to spray!
The house itself is a one (1) and a half story Cap Cod style with ample room for each individual cat. I reside in the county on six (6) acres of land and there are NO outside strays or litters lingering about!
I do TAR a.k.a. Trap-Alter-Return that is privately and independally funded out of my own pocket; therefore, once the alterations are completed the strays/ferals are released back outside on the PERIMETER of the land where they are fed ELSEWHERE.
I immedately shower and wash my clothes upon handling these cats in order to reduce if not eliminate their smell entirely from being brought into the house.
The only two (2) things that I have not yet done is contact an animal behaviorist or an animal communicator, but with all the money that I am investing in household repairs, diagnostic laboratory vet bills, medications and cleaning supplies, I have no more disposable income for a two-hundred dollar session with an animal behaviorist or animal communicator!
Not only that, but these individuals informed me via a free telephone consualtion (thank god) that they would need to see Dartagnan on several out-patient visits due to the severe natual of the circumstance AND to "probably" set up sessions with the other eleven (11) individually!
WHAT! two-hundred dollars per cat for an average of five (5) consecutive visits a piece! That is $12,000 dollars! IMPOSSIBLE! Who has that kind of money?! Besides, I have already spent close to that in the refurbishing of the house, supplies, veterinarian bills, etc.
What the hell am I going to do?! Anyone want a cat?
Lora
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