On Wednesday, July 7, 2004, at 04:07 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 07 Jul, 2004, at 03:43 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
But I DO say "do mineur sept b�mol cinq" while pointing to "Cm7(b5)", as almost every jazz musician in Qu�bec does.
Did you mean as opposed to "do demi-diminu�"? Because that's what I remember most of the francophone students at McGill using. It wouldn't surprise me if the same generational divide between "minor seven flat five" and "half-diminished" also exists on the francophone side.
It's the pointing at "C" while saying "do" thing that struck me as incredibly funny when I first noticed it -- it's actually a nice encapsulation of French-English relations in Canada.
It was the second point I was making, not the first (although I DO have sound theoretical reasons to prefer "minor 7 flat 5" over "half-diminished" in jazz) and I agree completely that it is a hoot, and liable for an in-depth sociological or linguistic study.
Even more funny are the words that make it into the other language but with completely changed meanings. Like "stock" in (Canadian) French, used like "stuff" would be in English. "�te ton stock de(tte) l�" for "get your stuff outta there." Or "rendezvous" in English carrying distincty romantic implications, while in French it is any ordinary appointment.
And there are at least two words that I know of in French that are borrowed from English, yet have French origins to start with! "Rosbif" for "roast beef", where "beef" comes from the French "boeuf" for bull, is one example. And the American word "jazz", now current in French when applied to the music, apparently comes from (according to one source) the French word "jaser" for converse.
There may be a third, but I am not sure of its truth. The French town of Auges apparently sent its mild sausage to the World Fair, under the name "le haut d'Auges" meaning "the best of Auges." When it was imported to the United States, the story goes that the name was pronounced by the American buyers as "hot dog", thus the name stuck. When the name was translated back into French, it was called "chien chaud", literally a "hot dog". Other regions in the States got the Frankfurt sausage (the Frankfurter), the Vienna sausage (the Weiner), or the meat patty from Hamburg on a bun (the Hamburger.) This last one gets gales of laughter here in Qu�bec when correctly translated as "hambourgeois", as everyone calls it a hamburger, even in French.
Christopher
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