Don,
I saw the later message from MakeMusic blaming this on the Petrucci
font, but I wonder if that's really right. I'm in Fin Mac 2k2 using
Maestro, and I get all the same behavior you describe. With one
exception all of it seems "normal" to me -- normal according Finale's
quirky way of applying accidental placement that I described in my last
message, that is.
On Jul 20, 2005, at 9:28 AM, Don Hart wrote:
Here's the problem as stated in my original post:
Try this:
-- Enter a chord in the treble clef consisting of F sharp, G sharp
up a
second, C sharp up a fourth, built up from the top line F sharp.
Show
all three accidentals.
-- Go to the "Accidental Mover Tool" in the "Special Tools" tool
palette
and click in the measure to bring up handles on the accidentals.
-- Select the handle for the F sharp and nudge once, either left or
right. When I do this the F sharp and the G sharp swap
position........
This is the one thing that surprised me. See below.
Undo that action and try on each of the other two accidentals. A
nudge
on the G sharp produces an expected action; nudging the C sharp
moves
the G sharp into a conflicting position.
This is as expected. When you nudge the C sharp, you've removed it
from Finale's calculation, so it places the other two sharps exactly as
it would if the C sharp weren't there.
Lower that example an octave and the first nudge produces a different,
more
severe problem, the difference seemingly predicated on stem direction
and
which note in the second is displaced.
This, too, is as expected. You refer to it as "more severe",
presumably because moving the F# creates a collision, but in fact it is
more normal. The F# simply nudges and does not jump, while the other
sharps rearrange themselves as if the F# weren't there, exactly as I'd
expected.
The one thing that is odd to me is in your first example, where the F#
and G# swap places. The behavior of the G# and C# is normal; they are
arranging themselves as if the F# were not there, as expected. What is
not expected (not expected by me, anyway) is that the F# would jump to
the left of the G#, since in my experience it's only the unadjusted
accidentals that jump, not the one you're nudging.
So let's do an experiment. Enter a B and a C in the middle of the
treble clef, and put a flat on the B. No other accidentals, just that
one. Now use the accidental tool to nudge that flat. When I do that
on Fin Mac 2k2, the flat hops to the left, exactly as your F# hopped to
the left. What this tells me is that the algorithm that tells the
accidental tool where to start an accidental when it is first nudged
gets it wrong when there's a displaced notehead.
Second experiment. Enter an F and G at the bottom of the treble clef,
and put a sharp of the G. Not other accidentals, just that one. Now
use the accidental tool to nudge that sharp. When I do that, now the
accidental hops to the right. Clearly the algorithm is not figuring
the displaced notehead properly. The one that automatically places the
accidental gets it right, but the one that tries to smooth out the
accidental tool by making the nudge start in the right place gets it
wrong. So this only affect the initial nudge from zero. After that,
everything is normal.
I'd be curious to know if this is fixed in later versions. If anyone
else tries the experiments with the single accidental, tell me if you
get the same result.
I really don't believe this has anything to do with Petrucci. Don,
I'll be very interested to know if changing the font to Maestro changes
the behavior. I'll be surprised if it does.
This is a pain to deal with, a pretty good impression of inconsistent
and,
ultimately, unacceptable, no matter how logical it is according to
Finale's
algorithms.
Again, NOT inconsistent. Definitely quirky, perhaps unacceptable, but
not inconsistent.
Thanks for pointing out this function of the clear key; I wasn't aware
of
it's use here.
Another thing I forgot to mention. When you're in the accidental
special tool, you can see at a glance which accidentals are adjusted
and which are not. The unadjusted ones (ie, ones which have a zero
offset value and thus are liable to rearrange themselves) have their
handle on the right, while the adjusted ones have their handle on the
left.
Finale will arrange all the right-handle accidentals as if they were
the only ones present. All left-handle accidentals will be left
wherever they happen to be.
mdl
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