On Jun 21, 2006, at 5:21 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote:
On Jun 21, 2006, at 2:46 PM, Robert Patterson wrote:
Personally, I like alto trombone very much. My latest orch. piece
used alto/ten/bass rather than the (now) more standard tenor 1/2,
bass. Fortunately the player has and enjoys playing an alto trombone.
After hearing it, I will probably rescore a few passages for tenor,
though. Alto trombone can't achieve the dark tenor sound, which is
great unless you want the dark tenor sound.
And of course, in the 20th-21st centuries, "tenor trombone" really
means tenor-bass trombone, w. a trigger.
The addition of a trigger alone does not make the instrument a
"tenor-bass", as even King 3b's (peashooters) are available with
triggers. They are just large-bore tenor trombones, that happen to have
an F trigger. The real tenor-bass that is called bass trombone in North
America these days has a bore that is larger still, a larger bell, and
a much deeper mouthpiece and wider backbore and lead pipe. Almost all
modern bass trombones also have a 2nd trigger, but even if it was
missing the 2nd trigger (or even a straight horn! I've seen them!) it
would still be a bass trombone.
I know a lot of first-trombonists prefer the old simplex tenor,
because it is lighter in weight and 1st trb. parts almost never need
the trigger, but it seems to me that most composers these days assume
that even the first trombone can and will play down to low C, not to
mention the pedals.
They can assume away, but those notes are much warmer, more even and
controlled by the bass trombonist, who in addition to the equipment
advantage also has spent many hours practicing down there to justify
his existence. Those notes tend to be pinched and blatty on the tenor
trombone and not nearly as loud, unless the player has freakish chops.
At the other end of the scale, I have never been impressed by the
timbre difference betw. T-B trombone and bass trombone, and I don't
write for it specifically unless I need the low B natural.
Don't use it just for that reason, as even a single-trigger player can
pull the valve slide out a semitone to play low B. But if the part sits
low, use the bass trombonist.
Bass trombonists (at least, me!) have worked hard to be able to blend
with the tenor trombones when playing mid-range, while bridging the
timbre gap with the tuba when playing low. This might account for the
lack of a big difference in timbre with tenors. The instrument just
sits lower in its range, about a third or fourth lower than the tenor
trombone.
For the same reason, though, it doesn't bother me at all if a Btrb
plays a 3d trb. part, and I'm sure that are some that implicitly
expect a bass trombone there.
That's exactly right. In the mid register, a bass trombone would be
pretty much indistinguishable from a large bore tenor in sound. Below
3rd line D you start to hear much more difference, as that is when the
bass trombone sound starts to open up, while the tenor trombone starts
to lose projection in comparison.
Berg asks the first trombone (also the 2d and 3d) to play a
louder-than-ff D below the bass staff. Berg specifically expects a
"Pedalton,"
That note WOULD be a pedal tone on an alto trombone.
but I don't think any trombonist at all these days would play it that
way, but would use the F trigger.
Yes, on a tenor trombone only. If the player is used to playing a
straight horn, he might have a trigger horn that he would use just for
this passage, then pick up his usual instrument when he could.
Meanwhile the bass trombone is asked to play the D below that--the
bottom D on the piano. I heard a performance of this w. the Buffalo
Philharmonic where the most amazing blat came out there--just what I
think Berg wanted; but to get it that loud, the 4th trb. player was
using a contrabass trb. for the whole part.
Yeah, baby! (drools)
We bass trombonists usually only get to play those notes in the
practice room or in special literature written by trombonists for
trombonists.
Christopher
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