At 2:56 PM -0500 1/15/07, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
On 1/15/07, Andrew Stiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have always found this distinction simplistic at best. Orchestras
began to break out of aristocratic boundaries almost immediately
(Corelli gave public concerts), and in London there were multiple,
competing orchestras aimed at various audiences throughout the 18th c.
while there are some exceptions, I get the sense orchestral concerts
were the venue of the nobility in Europe. Public concerts ( paid by
ticket sales from the public) were not the norm until the early 19th
century.
Well, one of the things Telemann did in practically every city he
worked in--Leipzig, Frankfurt and Hamburg for sure--was to start or
continue collegium musicum concerts, beginning in Leipzig in 1702
when he would have been a sophomore at the university. (Bach later
directed those concerts.) Now they may have been given in coffee
houses (1960s, anyone?!), and they may have been open to the public
for a 2-drink minimum or by subscription, but they did read through
new music, both sacred and secular, in those concerts, and they were
public in one sense or another.
I can't find my reference, but hasn't the Gewandhaus Orchestra been
in continuous operation since the mid-18th century? And weren't the
Concerts Spirituels in Paris open to the public as well?
Calling small orchestras not really orchestras strikes me as a red
herring. The Wagnerian orchestra didn't exist until, well, Wagner!!!
(Except for Berlioz, of course, but he was weird and those were
one-shot events!)
Germany's free cities had municipal musicians on their payroll, but
Zaslaw points to very very meager personnel lists*, these were hardly
"orchestras."
Ah, but those could be supplemented by students from the
universities. Bach said that's where he got his flute players.
The musicians were to perform in city churches, or do
other duties, such as sound time signals from watchtowers. And
surviving orchestral parts point to one or at most two instruments
playing (and that's certainly the case for J.S. Bach's vocal parts in
Leipzig.
Of course. As I've mentioned before, you didn't hire more musicians,
whether singers or instrumentalists, than you needed, and large
amateur ensembles simply didn't exist. This doesn't make Bach's
orchestras not orchestras! And if you're thinking about his famous
1731 memo, of course he was complaining; you don't say everything is
perfect when you're trying to hit up the Town Council for more
funding and more autonomy!
Saxony halted a
performance of Zelinka's Lamentations because she complained it was
too long. Imagine Donald Trump doing that at the Met ;)
If he bought out the house (or supported the institution himself, he
could do it. And would, from what I've seen about him!!
John
--
John & Susie Howell
Virginia Tech Department of Music
Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240
Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034
(mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html
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