On Mon Apr 14, at MondayApr 14 6:12 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:

> On 4/13/2014 6:48 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
>> Nah, any classically-trained bassonist, cellist or trombonist should
>> be perfectly at ease with tenor clef in a classical context.
>> 
>> In jazz and commercial music, though, C clef is definitely a
>> hindrance to trombonists. I, for example, can read perfectly well
>> when the context is classical in tenor or alto clef on trombone, but
>> find it very hard to swing in tenor clef. Then, your stated
>> preferences are correct.
> [snip]
> 
> That's very curious -- why do you think that is, that you find yourself 
> unable to swing while looking at tenor or alto clef?  Why would the clef 
> change the way you interpret the note coming out of your instrument?  I 
> understand that it is so, and I'm not asking in any attempt to be 
> argumentative, but really am curious?  As a music teacher I'm always on 
> the lookout for some new angle I can use to help my students overcome 
> various stumbling blocks.  I also understand that it may be difficult to 
> verbalize why you find that difficulty, but if you can do so I would 
> appreciate it very much.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -- 
> David H. Bailey

My only explanation is that I have so seldom seen jazz written in C clef, while 
most 19th C orchestra repertoire IS written in C clef (first trombone 
particularly), that I automatically go into the kind of tone production, style 
and articulation associated with the 19th C orchestra stuff whenever a C clef 
comes up. I suppose it might be possible to create a new set of default 
reactions in myself, but I would have decades of reactions to the contrary to 
overcome. Virtually 100% of the big band repertoire I have seen is in bass clef 
(with 8va signs when it gets very high) so that informs my "defaults". I COULD 
play a jazz part in C clef, but it would add a layer of decoding that might 
hang me up a bit, and most likely require more practice.

Strangely, when playing small-group jazz, concert-pitch treble clef lead sheets 
are the norm, but since I am supposed to be choosing my own octave (and 
phrasing/paraphrasing) when playing small-group jazz, that is a somewhat 
different set of default reactions that when I play jazz arrangements.

I have heard of similar reactions among horn players. They much prefer to see a 
part in the original transposition, rather than "normalised" to F horn. They 
don't approach the note the same way when it might be the same pitch for F 
horn, or C horn, or D horn, etc. You could even make the argument that there is 
different information in the different transposition. In fact, I suspect that 
most alto trombone players would have trouble playing a bass clef part! I can't 
recall ever having seen one, even once. (Possibly a first trombonist in a full 
time orchestra could contradict me, but that has been my experience so far.)

Christopher


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