Disclaimer: I didn't originally invent the crypto/ tree thingy, it was there before I even joined Fink. Also note that for me, and also for Ben Hines, there are no legal issues with any crypto software, so between us two it's trivial to "just abolish" the crypto tree - for both of us, nothing will change. From a legal POV, that is; for us as package maintainer, life would get easier.
Am Samstag, 22.03.03 um 21:04 Uhr schrieb Ben Hines:
Well, let's abolish the whole crypto/ tree, then! It's silly.
That's your opinion which is fine (and not surprising, you have no problems since your inside the US, so export laws don't hurt you). But I am surprise that you don't even *mention* the reasons the crypto tree was initially created. You may find them irrelevant, but, uhm, pretending they don't exist is pretty egoistic (and US centric *cough*). Why not give the reasons why you believe that legal reasons are nonsense? And why you think we can safely ignore laws around the world? That'd have been nice :-(
It doesn't sound like 'i'm too lazy to do it right' to me, it sounds like 'I don't need to do tons of extra work for dubious benefit'. Is there any true benefit to making separate SSL packages and non-SSL packages for apps that come with OS X?
I'd be interested to know: does Apple ship this with all version of Mac OS X in the whole world (I seriously don' know, this not a flame bait). Neither you nor me probably know this, since we both are in countries which are not affected by the US export laws or by import laws (for crypto technology I mean). But what about e.g. France (IIRC they have some laws against using strong crypto, but this might be wrong, so if anybody knows for sure, please correct me). Also, there are countries for which the US poses export restrictions. Is Mac OS X available in these countries at all? If yes, in the normal unmodified version? I.e. with openssl / openssh etc. ?
If they are, do they have legal backing, or are they just ignoring the law? IANAL so if somebody (dmalloc) has the contacts/knowledge to find out... also maybe some Apple employees on the list can tell us.
I see none. Why the hell would anyone ever want, or need, a non ssl python, when the ssl python comes with OS X/Darwin? If you can't answer that, we shouldn't expend tons of effort (and its a lot) accomodating it.Well if we can ensure that a) indeed all Mac OS X versions, anywhere, do contain openssl / openssh, and always will, and b) that we are legally allowed to do this:
Then we can at least remove the stuff that is in crypto only because of those (some other things might still have to stay in there), in particular most of the FOO-ssl packages.
For other stuff in crypto (not much, but gpg is a prime example), the situation might be different. Just because openssl is legal someplace (or exporting it to that place) is legal does *not* mean it's legal to do so with gpg, too (or cyrus-sasl or whatever).
Finally, 2nd disclaimer: for *me* abolishing crypto certainly would be less work, and no drawbacks involved. But I *do* care about the fact that there other countries out there than the US and Germany, and that the US has silly laws on cryptography. Which IMHO only punish normal citizens. The bad guys will use it anyway (combined with steganography to hide the fact). It's only the average Joe User that is limited in his rights. If he happens to be so "unfortunate" not to live in the US.
Cheers,
Max
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