At 2:07 PM -0500 4/4/04, Greg Jacobs wrote:
> I understand, in a general sense, the loss of rights that convicted
>felons are subject to, but what I cannot answer is the indirect impact, if
>any, on the families of felons, or other third persons.
> Simply put, the question is what happens when a convicted felon -
>Federal, non-violent, let�s say an IRS or SEC type crime - takes up
>residence with a family member, or even a friend, and that family member
>or friend owns firearms? For purposes of discussion, let us presume that
>the entire sentence has been served, although that might not matter at all
>for ATF regulatory purposes.
>
> Specific examples could include the marriage of a felon to a gun owner,
>or the moving in of a felon to the home of a parent or the reverse, a
>parent moving in with a child, or even a couple commencing to live
>together without the benefit of matrimony. The case presented to me is
>specifically the last example and, it appears, will result eventually in
>the first example. Into what position does the felony of the one put the
>other, namely, the firearms owning partner-soon-to-be-spouse? Can the
>felon spouse accompany the non-felon spouse to a shooting range and can
>the felon spouse be permitted to shoot the spouse�s weapons?
>
> I could use some direction to some varying state standards or statutes,
>too, like in Arizona, Texas, and Florida.
Strictly put, the felon is not allowed to "possess" firearms. That means
that the answer to your last question is a strong NO, as touching,
handling, etc. firearms is considered possession.
Everything less than that falls into a gray enforcement area. G. Gordon
Liddy famously joked to his listening audience that as a convicted felon,
he was not allowed to possess firearms, but his wife had a magnificent
collection and "some of them are stored on my side of the bed."
Closer to home, I worked for years with an upstanding gentleman who was a
world champion in pistol silhouette, an NRA training counselor, and an
instructor in rifle pistol and shotgun for several area gun clubs.
However, under state law (Massachusetts), he was unable to own, transport,
or carry handguns simply because he was a Scot who had never applied for
American citizenship. So all the handguns were purchased by and registered
to his wife, who accompanied him to his classes (she was also an
instructor), and so the charade was sufficient for years. (As a non-citizen
and not a felon, he was NOT forbidden to possess or use handguns on private
property, which made this workable.)
The usual test is, "Are the firearms accessible to or under the control of
a prohibited person?" For example, if the "law-abiding" spouse keeps all
firearms in a safe, this should satisfy the law... unless the other partner
also has the combination to the safe.
Court orders and plea agreements complicate the situation, as they have the
force of "private law." I know of several cases where parents, spouses,
etc., were ordered by the court to divest themselves of all their firearms
as a condition of allowing their convicted children/spouses to return home.
Depending on how they are written (and the family probably has zero room to
negotiate) this may result in them having to sign away their rights
permanently, even after the parole period is over. See example below.
[deleted] wrote:
> [My son] is coming up for
> parole and I don't want that fact made public in case there are lurkers
> watching. Over the years we have heard rumors of people wanting to extract
> revenge.
>
> First, he had to submit a "home plan". Basically that means he had to show
> that he has family and a place to go when he gets out. It is likely that
> he will go to a halfway house for a couple of months then he has to come
>here.
>
> Therein lies the rub. In order for him to come home, I had to sign away my
> 2nd and fourth amendment rights. We talked to his parole officer
> tonight. Everything looks good for [xxx] and he could move out of here as
> soon as he could convince his parole officer that he has a job and the
> where-with-all to support himself. But in the mean time the hard fast zero
> tolerance rule is no weapons in the house. That includes ammo, reloading
> supplies, and my swords, although my large butcher knives and meat cleavers
> are ok.
>
> We are however allowed to keep our guns in our cars. Yeah go figure. The
> rule is "in the residence." I could take them to work but my wife is
> uncomfortable with that idea. The PO and I both think the cars are less
> secure.
As far as Arizona goes, I know of no additional prohibitions in this area
(in fact, I suspect Arizona is looser than federal law on this subject,
which of course really doesn't give the citizen any extra latitude in
practice). If Florida has any special laws in this regard, they aren't
included in the packet of laws they give their CCW applicants to memorize.
--
Escape the Rat Race for Peace, Quiet, and Miles of Desert Beauty
Take a Sanity Break at The Bunkhouse at Liberty Haven Ranch
http://libertyhavenranch.com
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no
law, no court can save it.
--JUSTICE LEARNED HAND
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