Those who live in glass houses and all that... The Journal of The American Medical Association (2000:284:94) by Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, found that in the U.S. there are:
· 12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery · 7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals · 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals · 80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals · 106,000 deaths/year from adverse effects of medications This totals 225,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes, placing iatrogeny as the third leading cause of death in the U.S., second only to heart disease and cancer. The scary part is that this does not include disabilities and disorders; just deaths in hospitalized patients. But guns, that¹s the problem! On 6/23/11 5:44 PM, "Jamie Fraser-Paige" <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't have the figures at hand and am not inclined to dig them out, but > as I recall, the number of deaths in the population as a whole and of children > below the age of 18 from medical malpractice dwarfed the numbers for firearms > deaths of all kinds. So, until they clean up their house, why should we freely > give up our Constitutional rights to make them feel better? Or give them up at > all? I'm not inclined to nor to sit silently by while they lie about what;s > happening. My answer to any physician who is not a person I know from the > shooting sports who asks me gun questions is a simple: it doesn't apply to me. > > Jamie > > On 6/23/2011 12:40, Phil Lee wrote: >> >> Let me give an example of what would make me "feel better". According to >> the CDC, >> http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html : >> >> 2000 - 2007, United States >> Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000 >> All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 19 >> ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34,X72-X74,X93-X95,Y22-Y24, >> Y35.0,*U01.4 >> >> >> >> Year Number of >> Deaths Population*** Crude >> Rate >> 2000 3,042 80,473,265 3.78 >> 2001 2,937 80,936,178 3.63 >> 2002 2,893 81,220,566 3.56 >> 2003 2,849 81,485,313 3.50 >> 2004 2,852 81,819,970 3.49 >> 2005 3,027 82,072,745 3.69 >> 2006 3,218 82,389,800 3.91 >> 2007 3,067 82,856,970 3.70 >> Total 23,885 653,254,807 3.66 >> >> >> 2000 - 2007, United States >> All Injury Deaths and Rates per 100,000 >> All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 19 >> ICD-10 Codes: V01-Y36,Y85-Y87,Y89,*U01-*U03 >> >> >> >> Year Number of >> Deaths Population*** Crude >> Rate >> 2000 17,673 80,473,265 21.96 >> 2001 17,370 80,936,178 21.46 >> 2002 17,589 81,220,566 21.66 >> 2003 17,103 81,485,313 20.99 >> 2004 17,527 81,819,970 21.42 >> 2005 17,168 82,072,745 20.92 >> 2006 17,252 82,389,800 20.94 >> 2007 16,937 82,856,970 20.44 >> Total 138,619 653,254,807 21.22 >> >> >> Comparing all deaths for teens and children from injury to deaths by firearm >> injury for the same pool, shows there are 5.8 times (on average) as many >> deaths from all sources compared to just firearms. That is, for every >> firearm injury killing one of the members of this pool there are 4.8 >> drownings, vehicle accidents, stabbings, clubbings, poisonings, falls, etc. >> killing teens and children. >> >> It goes without saying that a deliberate killing of a teen or child does not >> mean that the killing was performed by a teen or child. So, we really have >> no idea of how many of these killings might've been stopped by parents >> talking up their guns ( at least not for many statistics I've seen quoted so >> far). A while back the Justice Department published a paper saying that most >> children were killed by adults not of the children ( about 2 to 1 as my >> memory). >> >> >> 2000 - 2007, United States >> Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000 >> All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 0 to 17 >> ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34,X72-X74,X93-X95,Y22-Y24, >> Y35.0,*U01..4 >> >> >> >> Year Number of >> Deaths Population*** Crude >> Rate >> 2000 1,544 72,293,812 2.14 >> 2001 1,433 72,736,394 1.97 >> 2002 1,443 73,049,266 1.98 >> 2003 1,317 73,258,317 1.80 >> 2004 1,385 73,492,810 1.88 >> 2005 1,490 73,749,167 2..02 >> 2006 1,593 74,010,089 2.15 >> 2007 1,520 74,340,127 2.04 >> Total 11,725 586,929,982 2.00 >> >> >> >> >> 2000 - 2007, United States >> Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000 >> All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 18 to 19 >> ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34,X72-X74,X93-X95,Y22-Y24, >> Y35..0,*U01.4 >> >> >> Year Number of >> Deaths Population*** Crude >> Rate >> 2000 1,498 8,179,453 18.31 >> 2001 1,504 8,199,784 18.34 >> 2002 1,450 8,171,300 17.75 >> 2003 1,532 8,226,996 18.62 >> 2004 1,467 8,327,160 17.62 >> 2005 1,537 8,323,578 18.47 >> 2006 1,625 8,379,711 19.39 >> 2007 1,547 8,516,843 18.16 >> Total 12,160 66,324,825 18.33 >> >> As children grow into their majority the firearm death rate increases more >> than ninefold on average. While parents locking up their firearms might >> possibly defeat access by children (although there have been a number of >> failures of children defeating parental locks publicized), it is questionable >> whether locks might defeat these older teens. Again, an 18 or 19-year-old >> being killed does not mean the killing was performed by an 18 or 19-year-old. >> >> >> NCIPC Home | WISQARS Home | Help | Contact Us >> >> 2000 - 2007, United States >> Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000 >> All Races, Both Sexes, Ages 21 to 22 >> ICD-10 Codes: W32-W34,X72-X74,X93-X95,Y22-Y24, >> Y35.0,*U01.4 >> >> >> >> Year Number of >> Deaths Population*** Crude >> Rate >> 2000 1,668 7,599,730 21.95 >> 2001 1,815 8,070,406 22.49 >> 2002 1,812 8,356,361 21.68 >> 2003 1,755 8,372,231 20.96 >> 2004 1,652 8,385,031 19.70 >> 2005 1,739 8,358,399 20.81 >> 2006 1,777 8,427,864 21.08 >> 2007 1,758 8,524,580 20.62 >> Total 13,976 66,094,602 21.15 >> >> This last group of results shows that young adults are much more violent >> than even late teens and there are no legal barriers preventing these young >> adults from getting firearms. >> >> There are even minor legal barriers preventing older teens from getting >> firearms and in many places they can buy rifles or shotguns if they can't get >> access to their parents' locked up firearms. >> >> As a minor exercise for the reader I suggest you determine the death rates >> for 21-22-year-olds from all injuries and verify that on average there were >> 2.5 deaths from other than firearms injuries for every firearm injury death. >> >> The importance of this information is that it reveals the cynical nature of >> these doctors were so concerned with firearm injuries ( many of which result >> from criminal on criminal violence) and less concerned with mostly accidental >> and preventable injuries from other causes. >> >> Phil >> >> >> >> >> --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Jamie Fraser-Paige <[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> From: Jamie Fraser-Paige <[email protected]> >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Firearmsregprof -doctors >>> To: [email protected] >>> Cc: "'rufx2'" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> , >>> [email protected] >>> Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 11:33 AM >>> >>> According to the University of Michigan, in 1999, of 3,385 children 0-19 >>> years of age who died of gunshot wounds, 214 of them were unintentional. >>> That is far fewer than the numbers Kraft uses. Since his methodology is >>> murky, it is hard to know exactly what he's talking about. Of course, most >>> of us know that Kraft is talking out of an orifice other than his mouth. >>> Does that make you feel better? {;-) >>> >>> Most of these hoplophobes want us to keep guns not only locked up, but >>> unloaded with the ammo locked up separately. If the gun is intended for home >>> defense, that is ludicrous. The AAP feels that the safest thing to do with >>> guns if there is a child in the house is to not have one, especially a >>> handgun. Again, ludicrous. >>> >>> Jamie >>> >>> On 6/22/2011 23:06, Phil Lee wrote: >>>> About 10 years ago about 50 children 14 and younger were killed by >>>> accidental discharge of firearms. Only about 900 people of all ages were >>>> killed accidentally (unintentially). No way is that 1,500 number correct. >>>> Now your response show one reason we make little headway against these >>>> people and their lies there is too much opinion and too little fact used >>>> to make a logical response. Do due diligence on the claim look up the >>>> data on firearm deaths and expose the lies. Phil -----Original >>>> Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> </mc/[email protected]> >>>> [mailto:[email protected] >>>> </mc/[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of >>>> Jamie Fraser-Paige >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:44 PM >>>> To: rufx2 >>>> Cc: [email protected] >>>> </mc/[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: Firearmsregprof -doctors He seems to be a staff writer for >>>> -- or at least a frequent contributor to -- Medical News Today. The only >>>> biographical information I could get in a quick search was this, from >>>> MediLexicon <http://www.medilexicon.org/ourteam.php> Intl. "Sy Kraft, BA, >>>> Writer Sy has a BA in Journalism from California State University and >>>> worked at Ogilvy, prior to that he was Principal at G2 (Grey Global)." >>>> MediLexicon seems to be the parent of Medical News Today. >>>> >>>> More important, where did he learn to do math? He cites "Approximately >>>> half of youth gun deaths, or more than 1,500 per year, occur because >>>> parents, relatives or friends leave guns accessible to kids." OK, one dead >>>> kid whose death could have been prevented by locking up guns is probably >>>> one too many. But that's 1,500 for the entire nation. Kraft goes on to cite >>>> these numbers for New York State: "In New York State alone, more than >>>> 95,000 youths live in homes with loaded weapons, and over 52,000 of these >>>> households have loaded and unlocked firearms." The number of kids killed >>>> with unsecured guns nationwide is less than 3% of the total number of kids >>>> "exposed" to unsecured guns in just one state! So the 1,500 kids is pretty >>>> small potatoes epidemiological speaking, wouldn't you say? Of course, I;m >>>> not a doctor and I;ve never played one on TV. But I can see a lies when >>>> it;s right there in front of me. >>>> >>>> Jamie >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/22/2011 15:14, rufx2 wrote: Who is ³Sy Kraft² The Center to >>>> Prevent Youth Violence (PAX), in collaboration with the American Academy of >>>> Pediatrics, created the ASK (Asking Saves Kids) campaign. ASK is a national >>>> public health initiative that provides something real every parent can do >>>> to keep their children safe. Article posted at Medical News Today on >>>> 6/22/11 by Sy Kraft¹ http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/229340.php >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg..com> >>>> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3719 - Release Date: 06/22/11 >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >>>> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3719 - Release Date: 06/22/11 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> >> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3721 - Release Date: 06/23/11 >> > > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to [email protected] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/firearmsregprof > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. > Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can > read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the > messages to others.
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