On Jul 2, 5:57 am, Tripp Lilley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:07 am, johnjbarton <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 1, 8:52 pm, whatcould <[email protected]> wrote:
> > ...
>
> > > 2. The other issue is the X button. I'm sure I'll get used to it
> > > eventually, but there's some big cognitive dissonance going on with
> > > the X (close) button and the Firebug icon. I know now that clicking
> > > the X _disables_ fb, and clicking the bug icon just hides it. But that
> > > was not immediately apparent, and I'm having a hard time teaching
> > > myself the new behavior. I have the feeling that we expect the
> > > opposite to be true -- clicking the bug enables FB, so clicking the
> > > bug again would disable it, right? [nope]. And the X says to me,
> > > "close this interface", not, "disable firebug".
>
> > But you are focusing on the first experience of a 1.3 user. Consider
> > the routine experience of a 1.4 user or a new 1.4 user.
>
> As a relatively new 1.3 user (and having not yet tried 1.4,) the top-
> right "X" seemed to me, intuitively, to mean "close this pane," not
> "exit Firebug." Given that there's no explicit "minimize" button, but
> there -is- an explicit "detach" button, I equate the "X" with
> minimizing.
The explicit minimize button is a red one roughly similar to [_] in
the upper right corner of 1.4.
>
> Right now, I primarily use Firebug to dress up poorly formatted pages
> for printing :-) I've done a lot of web development over the years
> (seriously, a LOT, and for YEARS, like, starting in 1996, you
> whippersnappers! :-) .)
heh, got you beat by a few years ;-)
>
> My "fix screwed up print formatting workflow" looks like this:
>
> 0) visit site, decide I need Firebug because someone doesn't
> understand media="print"
> 1) click the bug in the lower right corner to open FB
> 2) do stuff
> 3) click the "X" to see more of the page (no, I'm not a "detacher," in
> this context.)
Just click the Firebug icon again instead. Or F12 if you keep the
default key bindings.
> 4) looks good? GOTO 7
> 5) still ugly? click the bug again to "restore" FB
> 6) GOTO 2
> 7) click the "X" to "close" FB.
> 8) C-w to close the tab.
>
> In my mental model, when I've finished my tweaks and click "X" the
> final time, it doesn't matter to me whether or not FB is "merely
> hidden," "inactive," "suspended," or some other more specific and
> accurate term. It only matters that it's "gone." Since I'll be closing
> the window as soon as I've saved/printed/whatever, I'm not really
> aware of any resource hogging issues.
>
> That said... were I using FB with my developer's hat on, if clicking
> the "X" made all of my state disappear (e.g., logs, network traffic,
> console, etc.) I'd balk at that... Given that there's no explicit
> "minimize" button, I wouldn't expect the "X" to clear out everything.
There is an explicit minimize button. See:
http://blog.getfirebug.com/?p=156
The icon images changed since the blog post.
> In my mental model, Firebug is "always on," waiting for me to click
> the bug or "Inspect Element" to get it to the foreground.
True for HTML / CSS; false for Script/Console/Net.
>
> If there -are- resource hogging issues, then I'd expect more fine-
> grained and visible control over FB's presence/absence/dormancy/etc.
There are, for Script & Net, for large (eg 60kloc) JS site or lots of
images.
>
> In my mental model, then, based on integrating my learned experience
> with WIMP UIs in general, here's what I'd "expect" of a tool that
> distinguished the "active/inactive" pair from "visible/hidden":
>
>
>
> > The first use of the Firebug icon activates the page *and* shows the
> > UI. The 2nd click hides the UI, 3rd shows, 4th hides....
>
> > So the Firebug icon allows you to peek at the page without the UI in
> > the way. This is a huge win for designers especially. If we use this
> > button for deactivation, then we lose it for hide (minimize). I think
> > that is not a good tradeoff.
>
> > Deactivation is destructive: all of the console/script/net panel data
> > will be erased. That ought to be harder, for the same reason we have
> > to endure those awful confirm on delete dialogs.
>
> > If you are using firebug on a page, the chances are that you won't
> > close Firebug at all until you want to test the page without Firebug.
> > So during most of your development you will close the whole tab rather
> > than closing Firebug.
>
> > jjb
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