Folks --
Dear Gordana, Pedro, and colleagues,
That would be unfortunate because a reduction of the
information-theoretical approach to physics unnecessarily sacrifices
explanatory power. (As would by the way, a reduction to biology or
any other substantive theory.) At issue is --as you correctly note--
the autopoiesis model itself which allows for coordination at
different systems level. The formalisms allow us to move from one
level to another heuristically, and thus to specify if necessary
counter-intuitively.
In regard to the levels here, as in {physical dynamics {chemical
connectivities {biological forms {sociocultural organizations}}}}, if
one reduces, say, a social event, to the physical level, that higher
level in fact would not disappear. What the higher levels
accomplish, when viewed from the lowest level, is to generate
patterns of lower level entities / activities. In order to keep
track of lower level entities that are being entrained by higher
level activities, the simplest choice would be to observe the higher
level transactions themselves. Notice that I am not suggesting that
we can forget about the lower levels and just focus upon the higher.
For example, the market can be considered as a social coordination
system with its own dynamics. The coordination with other
coordination mechanisms by various forms of couplings can also be
studied using the information-theoretical approach because the
expected information content of a distribution is yet content-free.
The specification of a system of reference provides the
(Shannon-type) information with meaning. For example, when H is
multiplied with the Boltzmann constant, the entropy is expressed in
Joule/Kelvin and physics is the system of reference. However, this
is a special case. Joule and degrees have no clear meaning in the
case of the operation of the market as a coordination mechanism.
But the economic generation of patterns of joule transactions
can have meaning enough. For example, it has been suggested to
capture solar energy in the Sahara and to take it north for use in
Europe. A dispute about this arose when some folks argued that the
result concerning the energy balance of the earth was negligable.
But others argued that there would be a significant increase in heat
pollution in Europe by doing this instead of allowing the the solar
heat to dissipate from the deserts at night. It is the pattern of
solar energy dissipation that would altered by this economic
arrangement, but we still need to know that it is molecular motion
that holds the facts about dissipation.
Best wishes,
Loet
Loet Leydesdorff
Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR),
Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam.
Tel.: +31-20- 525 6598; fax: +31-20- 525 3681
<mailto:l...@leydesdorff.net>l...@leydesdorff.net ;
<http://www.leydesdorff.net/>http://www.leydesdorff.net/
From: fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es
[mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Pedro C. Marijuan
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:46 PM
To: fis
Subject: Re: [Fis] Emerging Synthesis?
Dear Gordana and Loet,
This is what the editors of the book literally say:
"The third main idea is that Coordination Dynamics deals with
informational quantities that transcend the medium through which the
parts communicate. Evidence shows that things may be coupled by
mechanical forces, by light, by sound, by smell, by touch and by
intention. In Coordination Dynamics, "binding" or coupling is
mediated by information, not --or not only-- by conventional forces.
Such information may not only be of a material but also of a
structural or topological nature. It may cause qualitative changes
in the dynamics of the coordinating parts and new states to emerge.
Hence, "bound" coordinative states in Coordination Dynamics are
informational, and information that changes bound states is
"meaningful" to the system." (Preface, p. IX)
I agree with Gordana that it may support a pan-physicalist approach
to information, and vice versa, a pan-informationalist approach to
physics too. Besides, the ongoing conceptualization of meaning looks
rather meager. From my view, another important objection to the "8
main ideas" is the absence of any reference to self-production (very
different from self-organization!); the life-cycle notion is also
missing...
Linking with the discussion that Michel started weeks ago, rather
than situating a similar recollection of main ideas about the term
"information", it could be more interesting putting into question
what it means "being informational". Say, the adjective as more
holistic than the name. The whole process around the message
(generation & needs, coding, emission, transmission, reception,
decoding, interpretation, action...) becomes the natural universe of
information science, rather than the focus on any single conceptual
item (wherever we may be willing to situate "information").
Curiously, "informational" in English & in Spanish does not exist
(only "informative", I think, but it means something completely
different). What "informational" would be indicating, roughly, is
that an entity self-constructs itself through the coupling of inner
and environmental signals... as happens with cells, organisms,
enterprises, etc.
best regards
Pedro
"3. Thereafter, the coordination dynamics deals with "informational
quantities" that transcend the medium through which the parts
communicate. The "binding" or coupling is mediated by information and
not by conventional forces (or not only)"
But isn't that exchange of information carrier the way physical forces
conventionally are - exchange forces?
Particles that are exchanged in particle physics are
information carriers
(or "messages" if one so will).
Best regards,
Gordana
Dear Gordana,
I understood this as Shannon-type information which is dimensionless (bits)
and merely dependent on changes in the distributions. The carriers in
different systems (to be coordinated) can in this case be substantially
different, but the distributions may communicate in terms of the
transmission (etc.).
Best wishes,
Loet
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