Gavin, Perhaps to be introduced here is the evolution from matter to life. Prior to life in the universe, there are only physicochemical laws valid everywhere. When life comes in, something local to the living entity is added: a “stay alive” constraint that applies only to the living entity, not elsewhere. Such constraint that is to be locally satisfied by the entity carrying it goes with the process of interpretation, or meaning generation, that links the living entity (the organism) to its environment. Organisms have the possibility to receive information incident from their environment (light, sound, information from other organism, ….) and process it. The information processing exists so it can initiate action aimed at satisfying the constraint. Easy for a “stay alive” constraint that will bring a paramecium to move away from acid water. Much more complex for humans exchanging language where other constraints and performances come in. But I feel that the basic notion of constraint satisfaction coming during evolution in addition to physico-chemical laws can be a simple and useful tool (see http://crmenant.free.fr/ResUK/MGS.pdf) Christophe
> From: garr...@xtra.co.nz > To: colli...@ukzn.ac.za; fis@listas.unizar.es > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:09:02 +1300 > Subject: Re: [Fis] BBC Doco; Cell > > Well then we totally agree on that. > > The second part of your response then, if some energy transduction has the > properties of information flow where is it (what are these properties) and > if it's there how do we measure it either qualitatively or qualitatively. > > Because it looks like to me, any exchange language or otherwise is really > only energy transduction albeit a mix of sight and sound (and the other > senses) which is really shape and hues (both nouns) of different energy > patterns. Which is really just the basis of scientific thought, made of > patterns of energy. Spectrums, chromatography, etc > > No information here. Just energy patterns. > > Gavin > > Gavin, > > Everything is energy transduction, even your thinking. Some energy > transduction has the properties of information flow, sensu Barwsie and > Seligman, Information Flow: the Logic of Distributed Systems (Cambridge UP, > 1997 or so). > > John > > > At 01:05 AM 2011/03/28, Gavin Ritz wrote: > > I watched a BBC documentary on the weekend with a friend who recommended it. > It was a really interesting and well presented programme. > > Some very far out stuff about the creation of life. > > However what I observed again (now more than ever before) that the DNA > molecule is an information carrying molecule. Simple, all we have to do is > decipher this information. Richard Dawkins also says this in a number of his > publications. "living matter is just matter plus information" > > I'm no biologist or biochemist (I'm an engineer). There's something wrong > here. > > Even at the most basic level of an organism's communication with its > environment. There is no discernable information exchange. Every single one > of our senses is an energy transduction structure-processing unit. All we do > is transduce say light and sound energy to electrical energy. This much is > pretty well established. > > Unless information is just a colloquial way of saying energy transduction > (or conversion). I doubt this though; information seems to be containing > much more than just this. It's almost as if commentators are saying behind > all this energy (and conversions, and work) lies a new and more powerful > notion. > > All of chemistry is the reaction of structures with other structures, there > are no informational exchanges. > > If there are informational exchanges where is the science? > > I'm not talking about computing machines or old fashioned telephony > (of-course we have created information here). > > These informational exchanges about organisms seemed to have crept into our > thinking around the 1950's circa cybernetics. Prior to this very little on > living organism and information exchange. > > Regards > Gavin > > > > _______________________________________________ > fis mailing list > fis@listas.unizar.es > https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > Professor John Collier, Acting HoS and Acting Deputy HoS > colli...@ukzn.ac.za > Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South Africa > T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 > http://collier.ukzn.ac.za/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > fis mailing list > fis@listas.unizar.es > https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
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