Caro Joseph, desidero precisare che la parola composta che io uso è tras-in-form-azione, non trans-informazione. Questo per evitare almeno un equivoco. Buona domenica. Francesco.
2014-06-07 12:05 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo <[email protected]>: > Caro Joseph, > vedo che il mio ultimo messaggio è stato un poco raffazzonato. In ogni > caso non penso che sia possibile soddisfare la Tua legittima curiosità > mediante brevi scritti. Ed è per questo che inizialmente mi sono permesso > di suggerire la lettura di tre libri. Naturalmente, mi farò risentire anche > per motivare, se serve, il perché "entropia" significa dis-informazione e > "neg-entropia" informazione. Interessante è a questo proposito la lettura > di "Che cos'è la vita?" di Erwin Schrodinger (con due puntini sopra la o). > Grazie soprattutto per la Tua verve critica che apprezzo molto. > Saluti. > Francesco. > > > 2014-06-07 8:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <[email protected]>: > > Dear Francesco and All, >> >> Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I think it deserves >> further critical comments, for example, on the way it relates information >> and cultural value and the co-generation of entropy and negentropy, usually >> implicit but not spelled out. >> >> Thanks for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the concept of >> information-process (the action of giving or taking form in time). In "The >> Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983), which became "Economics of an >> “architectural-environmental heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, Milan ), >> in which, inter alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied >> to the city, during a course on urban and regional economics at the Faculty >> of Architecture of Palermo, in 1984-85, the compound word >> trans-form-in-action (action of giving or taking form over time that can >> /not/ not trans-form) to the city, But what matters most is to have >> conceived the activity of economic production (in general) as a process of >> trans-information whose "input" (matter, energy and information) and >> "output" (matter, energy and information) are both negentropy and entropy. >> So my theory of value (which applies not only to the economy in the strict >> sense) can be defined in simple-combination of creative energy and >> information and, in a more complex triangle of the three surpluses of >> negentropy: thermodynamic or natural, eco-biological and >> cultural-historical. So, the marginal utility theory of value of >> neoclassical economists is outdated and (should be) thrown to the winds. In >> fact, the "new economy" is a psycho-physical, semiotic-hermeneutic and >> biological technology sub-episteme. In summary, I really think a new >> science of economics or economics of science has been invented. For Pedro’s >> re-discussion of information encouraged me to send the above message >> (without wishing to take any undue credit for myself). >> >> >> Best, >> >> Joseph >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <[email protected]> >> *To:* Joseph Brenner <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* Pedro C. Marijuan <[email protected]> ; >> [email protected] >> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City. >> Trans-in-form-action >> >> Caro Joseph, >> grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho introdotto il >> concetto-processo di informazione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel >> tempo) In "Economia dei beni culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del >> patrimonio architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli, Milano), in >> cui fra l'altro definisco i beni culturali neg-entropici. Inoltre ho >> impiegato la parola composta tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o >> prendere forma nel tempo che non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante >> lo svolgimento del corso di economia urbana e regionale nella Facoltà di >> Architettura di Palermo, nell'A.a. 1984-85. Ma quel che conta di più è >> l'avere concepito l'attività di produzione economica (in senso generale) >> come un processo di tras-informazione i cui "input" (materia, energia e >> informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e informazione) sono >> neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del valore (che non vale >> solo per l'economia in senso stretto) può definirsi- in modo semplice- >> combinazione creativa di energia e informazione e, in modo più complesso, >> triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali, >> eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del valore-utilità >> marginale degli economisti neoclassici è sorpassata e da buttare alle >> ortiche. Difatti la "Nuova economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme >> psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso >> davvero di avere inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o economia >> della scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di informazione sono >> stato stimolato a mandare il messaggio precedente. >> Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto. >> Cordiali saluti. >> Francesco Rizzo. >> >> >> >> 2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <[email protected]>: >> >>> Dear Francesco, >>> >>> Thank you for a most interesting overview of your work. What I would be >>> most interested in would be a summary of the real processes underlying >>> "trans-in-form-action" and its relation to information - and >>> "trans-information". The use of the prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity >>> is intended (by Nicolescu) to refer to something that lies within, between >>> and beyond specific disciplines. Another non-trivial use of 'trans-' was >>> made by Pedro. >>> >>> (Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the creation of >>> artistic documents or objects with some social relevance, that is, to the >>> common good. It is important to understand, in this connection, how >>> information carries such relevance.) >>> >>> If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than English, unless there is >>> someone else in the group with Italian-language skills, I would undertake >>> to make a rough translation (or edit a machine-translation). >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> (Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.) >>> VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International Society for Information >>> Science) >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <[email protected]> >>> *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan <[email protected]> >>> *Cc:* [email protected] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City >>> >>> Caro Pedro e cari tutti, >>> mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova economia" è basata sul >>> processo di tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra i tanti >>> altri: >>> -Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o l'economia >>> della scienza", FancoAngeli, Milano 1999; >>> -Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro creativo e della >>> conservazione della natura. Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria", >>> Aracne editrice, Roma, 2013; >>> -Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della fede e l'intelligenza >>> della scienza. Un salto nel cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma 2014. >>> Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per ri-comprendere e ri-significare >>> la scienza economica. Quello che scrivo non è una presunzione. >>> Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie. >>> Francesco Rizzo. >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <[email protected]> >>> : >>> >>>> Dear FISers, >>>> >>>> Among the many interesting themes where the information science >>>> perspective may provide useful orientations, cities are one of the most >>>> singular. A recent work by Michel Batty on the New Science of Cities (2013, >>>> MIT) makes a lot of connections with our oft discussed info topics. A >>>> Communication Theory of Urban Growth was developed by Richard Meier (1962); >>>> a fluxes perspective was already attempted by Patrick Geddes (1949). In >>>> essence I have found that the idea of information flows and material flows >>>> as catching and intertwining each other, with their highly different >>>> regimes, heterogeneity and energy contents, appears as an important focus >>>> in order to better understand the globalized city. Scaling is one of the >>>> essential concepts... >>>> >>>> I am not aware that scaling has been applied to the informational >>>> analysis itself (obviously it is the cornerstone of self-similarity). What >>>> I mean is that a micro-level of communication analysis may be quite >>>> different from the meso-level, and the from macro-level. Thinking in the >>>> human case (biologically it could make sense too) the micro level is >>>> dominated by syntaxis, by a Shannonian type of analysis on messages emitted >>>> from a sourced to a receiver. The meso level contains meaning, value >>>> (fitness), purpose, and in general it implies the communication associated >>>> to the behavioral episodes and living rhythms of individuals. While in the >>>> macro level, many individuals' actions, works, products, etc. are >>>> aggregated into fluxes or flows, basically of two kinds those devoted to >>>> the material (self-production) and those carrying the info stuff devoted to >>>> communication; then it invites analysis of network science, operations >>>> research, economic efficiency, etc., and of course the direct flow >>>> perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have attempted in one of the most >>>> interesting theories on self-constructing flow systems. Depending on the >>>> information perspective in which we observe human communication, we will >>>> need one or another lens to better make sense of what is happening. >>>> >>>> My impression is that a more mature info science could be quite helpful >>>> in this new field of urban development science --most people nowadays are >>>> living in cities. Top down planning will fail if it is does not match with >>>> the bottom up processes, both in communication and self-production aspects. >>>> Keeping an adequate social flow of information, a well-mixed regime of >>>> communication, is the essence of democracy. The contemporary "epidemics of >>>> loneliness" for instance may be due among other social and demographic >>>> causes to failures in bureaucratic high level planning... >>>> >>>> best ---Pedro >>>> >>>> PS. After the nasty computer crash months ago, we should try to enliven >>>> the list--shouldn't we? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------- >>>> Pedro C. Marijuán >>>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group >>>> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud >>>> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA) >>>> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X >>>> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain >>>> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818) >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/ >>>> ------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Fis mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fis mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >>> >>> >> >
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