Caro Joseph,
desidero precisare che la parola composta che io uso è
tras-in-form-azione, non trans-informazione. Questo per evitare almeno
un equivoco.
Buona domenica.
Francesco.
2014-06-07 12:05 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo
<13francesco.ri...@gmail.com <mailto:13francesco.ri...@gmail.com>>:
Caro Joseph,
vedo che il mio ultimo messaggio è stato un poco raffazzonato. In
ogni caso non penso che sia possibile soddisfare la Tua legittima
curiosità mediante brevi scritti. Ed è per questo che inizialmente
mi sono permesso di suggerire la lettura di tre libri.
Naturalmente, mi farò risentire anche per motivare, se serve, il
perché "entropia" significa dis-informazione e "neg-entropia"
informazione. Interessante è a questo proposito la lettura di "Che
cos'è la vita?" di Erwin Schrodinger (con due puntini sopra la o).
Grazie soprattutto per la Tua verve critica che apprezzo molto.
Saluti.
Francesco.
2014-06-07 8:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.bren...@bluewin.ch
<mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>>:
Dear Francesco and All,
Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I think it
deserves further critical comments, for example, on the way it
relates information and cultural value and the co-generation
of entropy and negentropy, usually implicit but not spelled out.
Thanks for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the
concept of information-process (the action of giving or taking
form in time). In "The Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983),
which became "Economics of an "architectural-environmental
heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, Milan ), in which, inter
alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied to
the city, during a course on urban and regional economics at
the Faculty of Architecture of Palermo, in 1984-85, the
compound word trans-form-in-action (action of giving or taking
form over time that can /not/ not trans-form) to the city, But
what matters most is to have conceived the activity of
economic production (in general) as a process of
trans-information whose "input" (matter, energy and
information) and "output" (matter, energy and information) are
both negentropy and entropy. So my theory of value (which
applies not only to the economy in the strict sense) can be
defined in simple-combination of creative energy and
information and, in a more complex triangle of the three
surpluses of negentropy: thermodynamic or natural,
eco-biological and cultural-historical. So, the marginal
utility theory of value of neoclassical economists is outdated
and (should be) thrown to the winds. In fact, the "new
economy" is a psycho-physical, semiotic-hermeneutic and
biological technology sub-episteme. In summary, I really think
a new science of economics or economics of science has been
invented. For Pedro's re-discussion of information encouraged
me to send the above message (without wishing to take any
undue credit for myself).
Best,
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Francesco Rizzo <mailto:13francesco.ri...@gmail.com>
*To:* Joseph Brenner <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>
*Cc:* Pedro C. Marijuan <mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
; fis@listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
*Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
Trans-in-form-action
Caro Joseph,
grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho
introdotto il concetto-processo di informazione (azione
del dare o prendere forma nel tempo) In "Economia dei beni
culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del patrimonio
architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli,
Milano), in cui fra l'altro definisco i beni culturali
neg-entropici. Inoltre ho impiegato la parola composta
tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel
tempo che non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante lo
svolgimento del corso di economia urbana e regionale nella
Facoltà di Architettura di Palermo, nell'A.a. 1984-85. Ma
quel che conta di più è l'avere concepito l'attività di
produzione economica (in senso generale) come un processo
di tras-informazione i cui "input" (materia, energia e
informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e informazione)
sono neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del
valore (che non vale solo per l'economia in senso stretto)
può definirsi- in modo semplice- combinazione creativa di
energia e informazione e, in modo più complesso, triangolo
dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali,
eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del
valore-utilità marginale degli economisti neoclassici è
sorpassata e da buttare alle ortiche. Difatti la "Nuova
economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme
psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e
biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso davvero di avere
inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o economia
della scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di
informazione sono stato stimolato a mandare il messaggio
precedente.
Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto.
Cordiali saluti.
Francesco Rizzo.
2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner
<joe.bren...@bluewin.ch <mailto:joe.bren...@bluewin.ch>>:
Dear Francesco,
Thank you for a most interesting overview of your
work. What I would be most interested in would be a
summary of the real processes underlying
"trans-in-form-action" and its relation to information
- and "trans-information". The use of the prefix
'trans-' in transdisciplinarity is intended (by
Nicolescu) to refer to something that lies within,
between and beyond specific disciplines. Another
non-trivial use of 'trans-' was made by Pedro.
(Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the
creation of artistic documents or objects with some
social relevance, that is, to the common good. It is
important to understand, in this connection, how
information carries such relevance.)
If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than
English, unless there is someone else in the group
with Italian-language skills, I would undertake to
make a rough translation (or edit a machine-translation).
Best regards,
Joseph
(Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.)
VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International
Society for Information Science)
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Francesco Rizzo
<mailto:13francesco.ri...@gmail.com>
*To:* Pedro C. Marijuan
<mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
*Cc:* fis@listas.unizar.es
<mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es>
*Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City
Caro Pedro e cari tutti,
mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova
economia" è basata sul processo di
tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra
i tanti altri:
-Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza
dell'economia o l'economia della scienza",
FancoAngeli, Milano 1999;
-Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro
creativo e della conservazione della natura.
Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria", Aracne
editrice, Roma, 2013;
-Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della
fede e l'intelligenza della scienza. Un salto nel
cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma 2014.
Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per
ri-comprendere e ri-significare la scienza
economica. Quello che scrivo non è una presunzione.
Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie.
Francesco Rizzo.
2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan
<pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
<mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>>:
Dear FISers,
Among the many interesting themes where the
information science perspective may provide
useful orientations, cities are one of the
most singular. A recent work by Michel Batty
on the New Science of Cities (2013, MIT) makes
a lot of connections with our oft discussed
info topics. A Communication Theory of Urban
Growth was developed by Richard Meier (1962);
a fluxes perspective was already attempted by
Patrick Geddes (1949). In essence I have found
that the idea of information flows and
material flows as catching and intertwining
each other, with their highly different
regimes, heterogeneity and energy contents,
appears as an important focus in order to
better understand the globalized city. Scaling
is one of the essential concepts...
I am not aware that scaling has been applied
to the informational analysis itself
(obviously it is the cornerstone of
self-similarity). What I mean is that a
micro-level of communication analysis may be
quite different from the meso-level, and the
from macro-level. Thinking in the human case
(biologically it could make sense too) the
micro level is dominated by syntaxis, by a
Shannonian type of analysis on messages
emitted from a sourced to a receiver. The meso
level contains meaning, value (fitness),
purpose, and in general it implies the
communication associated to the behavioral
episodes and living rhythms of individuals.
While in the macro level, many individuals'
actions, works, products, etc. are aggregated
into fluxes or flows, basically of two kinds
those devoted to the material
(self-production) and those carrying the info
stuff devoted to communication; then it
invites analysis of network science,
operations research, economic efficiency,
etc., and of course the direct flow
perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have
attempted in one of the most interesting
theories on self-constructing flow systems.
Depending on the information perspective in
which we observe human communication, we will
need one or another lens to better make sense
of what is happening.
My impression is that a more mature info
science could be quite helpful in this new
field of urban development science --most
people nowadays are living in cities. Top down
planning will fail if it is does not match
with the bottom up processes, both in
communication and self-production aspects.
Keeping an adequate social flow of
information, a well-mixed regime of
communication, is the essence of democracy.
The contemporary "epidemics of loneliness" for
instance may be due among other social and
demographic causes to failures in bureaucratic
high level planning...
best ---Pedro
PS. After the nasty computer crash months ago,
we should try to enliven the list--shouldn't we?
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526
<tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526> (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es
<mailto:pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es>
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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